Is rf2 too difficult? [lack of online players / leagues struggling]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Denstjiro, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Which league are you talking about here Denstjiro?
     
  2. Valter Cardoso

    Valter Cardoso Registered

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    Well, i could give my opinion aswell and sorry for any gramar error.

    1- You cant compare rf1 popularity with rf2 for a simple issue. RF1 was the most cracked used sim in history. fact. The majority of rf1 users had cracked rf1. Any of you here wich has a league knows about it. Thats the reason 1.
    2- Second reason is obvious the requeriments needed to run rf2 at a decent state. Some can, some cant. Thats the reason 2.
    3- Racing Simulators are a small nich of market.

    That are the issues about rf2 popularity. Dont go find some excuses about learning curves, servers, whatever. Who ever bought the game and have the requeriments will make use of it no matter what. Dont know any one wich bought rf2 and go back to rf1 or any other sim. But i know some that adquired AC and PCars, that were rf2 haters, and now they start to come to our events....


    Now about leagues and the "lack of drivers".
    In our league we run constant championships both in rf1, rf2, Game Stock Car and Richard Burns Rally.
    Presently we have 2 championships in rf1 with a total of 60 drivers divided in 2 categories.
    We have 1 championship in rf2 with a total of 17 registered drivers.
    22 on GSC13 and 30 on RBR.
    And this are drivers wich race, not only a number. So, we are talking about +100 weekly present drivers showing at events. Thats good? Thats bad? Dont know. Thats what it is.
    And we are on a small country, Portugal, where the small nich is even smaller and where theres around 5/6 simracing communitites.....haaaa....and all this drivers are Portuguese. We only have 2 drivers wich are not from our country.

    We didnt experienced this supposed lack of drivers. Obvious we dont see 100 drivers appearing for a rf2 event mainly cause of the first 2 facts i explained in the beggining.

    Problem of some leagues is that they dont make their full work.
    Its not all about fancy posters and bumping posts on some forums.
    If you want to get more drivers you need to educate them. You need to explain what simulation is. You need to help them installing things. You need them to enjoy and bring their friends to "this world".
    I´ve lost how much hours i spent in team viewer and team speak helping newbies installing and explaining things (majority are above 30yrs)

    Its not about rf2, its about a small nich wich needs to spread to other people.

    And nobody do that work. We only see announcements of this new wip car, new track, etc. I dont see nobody full commited with expanding simracing. Only the guys on IRacing made a bit of work on promoting simracing. All others seems to be happy with the small nich they have.

    If you go ask a normal gamer what is simracing you´ll get one of two answers. Or they say its all about forza/gt6 or they say its something Formula 1 teams use......

    Education its the way.
     
  3. Bkim

    Bkim Registered

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    Every game, played on its limits is difficult. Within the race sim world i see rF2 as Linux while the rest of the games are windows. Nowadays kids want to game the easy way. No difficult setups, just plug and play racing like on consoles. AC made it to steam which is probably their secret to success, while they have drawn a lot of consoles players attention. AC also has a red triangle showing the position of AI....exactly...
    There are people shouting on forums rF2 is having problems, that they are very worried about rF2's progression. They just do not have the patience, developers need. The main disadvantage of beta's and early access (i know the trap). rF2 is the most advanced racesim found on the market right now. It has everything: SP, MP, good AI, weather, 24 hour clock. None of the current race sim being developed are as far as rF2. I own rF2, AC and R3E. They excel in their own strength and have their own weaknesses. Those sturdy rF1 racers, need to un-sturdy themselves and have an open mind about a great successor instead of having the tunnel vision about how great rF1 is with all hundreds of mods (which it is), but it is time to move forward.
    All my friends keep racing rF1 due to old hardware and the hundred of different mods.
     
  4. Taxi645

    Taxi645 Registered

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    Reason for me was really simple, didn't have much time anymore and figured to wait till rF2 got mature, full release so the people were there and sufficient content was available. In fact I haven't simraced for about 2 years cause I felt myself and the community was stuck between rf1 and rf2. As a way to blow of some steam I took out my old Driving force pro and starting testing the water again with rF2 about a week ago. I also quickly started messing with the steering torque minimum which gives a nice bonus.

    In rF1 all I really ever drove was HistorX en Enduracers. I liked the cars and could trust the physics to be half decent. For me to really get involved with rF2 again is when it get's a full release so the driver community surges and for quality mods like the ones mentioned get released for rF2.
     
  5. FatCity

    FatCity Registered

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    I personally think that RF2 is at around the stage that RF1 was when it was first released. Everyone was playing F1C or Nascar 2003 Racing Season or GTR or GPL and GT Legends etc., there where some great mods around and a lot of leagues running in many countries.
    I ,with a close mate and another guy that we had met online were running a league using GTR2 as it was what we considered to be a sim, we never used F1c as we where more sedan orientated, being Aussies, tin tops were and still are more popular than open wheelers.
    I happened to come across the RF1 online testing version and was immediately impressed by how it compared to other Sims online, it was far superior,
    It took me some time to convince the guys that were racing to move over to RF1 but they did, and that's where we stayed.
    We had the opportunity to run a new league on Monday nights through www.simracingaustralia.com ( cheap plug ) which we called The Monday Factor, and it really has never looked back. The leagues has run on donations and has been around for about 6 or 7 years, may be a bit longer.
    We have seen people come and go, but usually not be cause of the game, other worldly commitments mainly.
    RF1 up until now was unbeatable as a racing sim in my book, RF2 stands far above it in all but 2 things.
    Ease of modding/skinning etc and the ease of setting up a server/host race.

    I don't have anything to do with running the league nowadays having handed it on to a very competent person who has chosen his staff well, so I'm not 100% up to speed with server settings but it seems to be a lot harder to set up a league with having to have a vmod to download to enter every race and the not being able to etc.
    Also, in RF1, I could put in an IP address and go straight to our server without having to search through hundreds of other servers to find ours. In RF2 I can't see where you can do this.

    As for mods etc, I can't mod for shyte, but in RF1 there where 1000s eventually, some not worth thinking about, others worth making a separate game over ( REIZA Studios show that ).
    There are only a couple of good mods for RF2, The URD Endurance mod being the main one in my book, but the Apex GT3 mod looks like it will be a winner and theres also the Lola T280 mod as well.
    The rest of the good stuff is ISI supplied, all great!
    There's plenty of cars to use , even if they don't have real world sponsors etc, the cars are great.

    Someone posted that the Historic cars aren't any good and no fun, well not everyone is a pimply faced teenager that gets a fat every time he sees an F1 car with Vettel in it, there are a lot of us old codgers that do remember the "historic cars"

    I'm rambling now but to get back on track, RF1 took some time before it was as well known as it is, I think RF2 will do the same. Once there are more decent mods and tracks, not just rehashed F1C to RF1 to RF2 conversions, it will start to grow like RF1 did.

    I don't think its too hard, may be for some younger racers but not for most.
    As for the advertising, if the Pirtek and Yuasa guys are going to push the game with the Civic in the demo, why not get them to paint one of their cars or at least donate a large space on the car to advertise the game, anyone watching a BTCC race and see RF 2 plastered across a car are going to wonder what's that. If ISI picks up 1% of those people then it has to be good advertising in my book.

    Oh I forgot, pc hardware is an issue, but no bigger an issue than any other new release game of any sort has been over the years, somewhere along the line, someone needs to upgrade to get a game to run smoothly.
     
  6. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    I don't think this has anything to do with rF2 being too difficult. The problem is that sim racing is a niche game and it has become too fractionated. People still race sims from 10+ years ago- there are still GPL and GTR2 leagues out there. rF1 is going strong, Race07 has leagues, iRacing is huge, there's now AC and pCARS is on the horizon, R3E, etc. There aren't enough people for the genre to support the old games THAT SHOULD NOT STILL BE RACED and the new games too. If people don't put down those older sims and move on it'll stay like this. It is our responsibility as members of the sim racing community to move forward and let the old games fade away. But sim racers don't see it this way, racing sim devs struggle as people stick with the old games and don't buy the new ones. To improve the online experience for every sim people need to move on.

    I put this on the league admins of leagues that still run the older sims. Drop GTR2, drop rF1, drop GPL, drop Race07 etc and force your people to move on- it will be better for the community as a whole.
     
  7. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    I look forward to your modded creations then if you think whatever we have now is "crap".... show us all what you can do!
     
  8. Luis Armstrong

    Luis Armstrong Banned

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    La cage aux folles Racing club.
     
  9. Galaga

    Galaga Banned

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    On the topic of rFactor 2 being too difficult, I disagree because there are cars that are easy to drive. No?

    rFactor 2 is a sim so if IRL car is difficult to drive then sim car should be difficult to drive. Am I missing something?

    By the way, 'Casual online racing' is an oxymoron. The only place casual racing makes sense is offline. No?

    The state of rFactor 2 is simple. Those who recognize their limitations, chose a vehicle they are capable of driving, learn how to drive, set realistic goals, and practice will be rewarded. Others will leave or forever be frustrated. Most, if not all, will never understand why. Many will hang around and troll because they don't know what else to do with themselves. rFactor 1 had a larger following due to it's accessibility and no doubt many people will be left behind but those who belong and remain will be better than ever :)

    So the answer to the question is 'No'.

    Regarding what rFactor 2 needs, that also a very simple question. What it needs is event consolidation, fewer and better admins, recruiting of TRUE SIM RACERS (has anyone demo'd rf2 at a track day?) into the community and respectful 'counseling out' of those for which rFactor 2 is not a solution.

    If the following describe you, then you may want to reconsider whether rF2 is for you:

    - You only want to drive so you can pretend your someone else
    - You refuse to drive a mod or track based on graphics alone
    - You only want to drive what you see people driving on TV
    - You want intense high quality racing on demand whenever you want with your favorite combo without any practice
    - You believe you are a gifted driver and anything difficult is inaccurate

    On education and system technical difficulty...

    So many people have unrealistic or poorly/defined expectations and goals it's very sad. A cohesive recruting and retention strategy would be great, but will never happen. What is easier but will also probably never happen is to stop all the noise and myths regarding the importance of hardware and software fiddling. I've never been happier since I decided to 'just run it'. I have a G27, single monitor, default UI and a GTX760. The only plugins I run are the pedal plugin and trackmap plugin and they will be the first to go if I have any problems, which I haven't.

    On marketing...

    Tough one. So many things have to come together to create a good sim racer it really does have to be a perfect storm. Possible candidates for recruiting are

    - console racers truly looking for more CHALLENGE and willing to WORK
    - track day participants
    - geeks/nerds/smart people
    - ?

    I'm (was?) writing a fantasy short story entitled Sim School where American local communities are centered around sim racing like many are around American football today. A fantasy for sure, but very fun to imagine :)
     
  10. Barf Factor

    Barf Factor Registered

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    Which recent change are you referring to?
     
  11. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Well...we where thinking about this. But because of the problems with rf2 and the very poor support for server admins, we decided to stay on Race07 for the next season. What did i meant with "poor support for server admins"? There is no section or subforum, where everything could found wich is depending to all the questions & problems about rf2 server hosting. If an admin have a question, it takes hours to search through the whole forum, to find an answer or not. Tim promised to make a subforum for admins, but this never has happen.

    There are enough problems and enough work to do to keep a simracing community running. There is no need for additional problems because of the used sim. I´m sure, if rf2 became stabil one day and is completly working "out of the box", we would think again about a change.

    Personally i like rf2, but it`s not really done for a league, from my point of view. To many "workarounds" etc., wich is to complicated for "normal" user.
     
  12. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Yeah, I guess if you drive alone on route66 in your Panoz its pretty easy.
    try keeping up with real competition in a league environment with peeps being much faster but still battling for a tenth or so between the top 6 and 10 more chasing you. Take the 'easiest' mod and it becomes difficult (and more fun of course)

    Yes, I think you are missing something.

    What makes sense to you might not make sense to others. If I was a casual driver just starting, I would go online right away because 'gaming' on my own or vs AI is just not going to cut it.
    And i'm sure there are many other reasons why casual drivers don't stay offline. What makes you think a new rf2 user will first spends months preparing themselves properly before they go online?

    You just described someone whom is experienced, knows what he is doing, knows his limitations, knows what the deal of simracing is.
    I think you are too eager to push aside anyone not familiar with our thing. its the elitist simracer attitude I don't care much about tbh.

    This is what we do, what other leagues do as well. I don't think you've read anything in this thread did you?
    btw, please tell me how to only recruit true simracers.



    I hope ISI is looking at this thread, perhaps all problems for users will magically go away if ISI advises them to 'just run it'


    And you keep writing them so it seems. sorry to sound like an ass but your post lacks reality.

    Check your privilege
     
  13. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Since we are already plugging why the hell not:
    www.legends-league.com
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2014
  14. endonesia

    endonesia Registered

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    1) iRacing took a large chunk of casual simracers away. As you said, it eliminates the need for league participation.

    2) rF2 is not easy to understand or get running correctly.

    3) I think everyone underestimates the amount of people running rF1 WITH THE CRACK!!

    4) Lack of quality tracks!

    The good news is that the iRacing flunkee$ (doh!) have not forgotten that rF/rF2 are the best physics ;)

    Also, I believe #2 on my list is on the verge of being eliminated, and at least in my league... you will never have to download or install content manually again when you want to pick-up race with us :)

    After over 2 years of running rF2 as admin, only now am I starting to mod rF2, and 'get' it's structure and way of doing the new things vs rF1.
     
  15. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    I agree on the sim community being fractioned, its one of the reasons indeed. I suspect once AC gets a decent MP it will become even worse.

    But for the other points, league running older content I don't agree at all.
    Its not just about the best sim, or the sim with better qualities over others. for leagues and its members its about online competition, the ability to race one another.

    For example some of our members active in iracing post video's of their races on our forum, pretty professional video's as well from a guy on utube doing comments and all.
    And whils I myself ditched iracing a while ago, just seeing such large grids, close racing, the fun they are having.....all I think of is that I want that as well. I just want to race within healthy grids with great people.

    So I can fully understand leagues staying with older content if that is what is providing what they need.

    As for league admins, normally they don't just decide what's next on the agenda. we could not force our members to buy a sim and start using it. its the consensus of a community that decides the direction of the community. in our league we have said it many times, if the majority of our members want to use rf2, rf1, iracing, gpl, Mario kart, then we will go for it, or at least create a separate section for them so they can have fun. we will take care of results and ladders no problem.

    And even with forcing a certain format, fine as well, it happens, people will join because of that, but others will also leave because of that and find something else. you can't control this stuff.

    One other thing though, older sims are common ground where admins and users know their way around its issues and able to fix them one way or another. With rf2 this is not (yet) the case. personally took me a while to finally gather enough courage to dive into rf2 as an admin as I knew it was going to be a hell of a task. and it still is.
     
  16. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Can I just drop in on this? I agree online casual racing isn't a great way for new drivers to wet their feet in rF2. With any Sim for that matter. Open servers are most of the time open crash feasts and not a good place for people to be starting. When asked about racing sims I always tell them to join a League. Always! Even if you only want to race for a bit of fun. The reason is the League will help you when your install goes to ****e for any reason, help with all things concerning the sim and the best opportunity to have far cleaner races on their practice server. These are the people that are more likely to enjoy their sim and are the ones you as admin could see as more permanent drivers given time.
     
  17. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    http://isiforums.net/f/forumdisplay.php/56-Hosting-Help ?
     
  18. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    I was banned from that league for being too manly :p
     
  19. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Registered

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    These two apply to me (to an extent) but I can assure you that rFactor2 is very much for me. I drive little else.

    You should realise that a broad range of people use this sim and they don't all subscribe to your mind set.
     
  20. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    Yeah I'm definitely not a graphics guy but if a track is a quick conversion (which you can tell from the graphics) I won't use it.
     

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