Sorry that it's not possible to give a better answer. Sent using Tapatalk - excuse the short post, etc
What disappoint me more is not this long beta phase, but the fact that except for the tire engine, physics and weather everything else is a copy and paste from rFactor 1 (with a tiny improvement like net code), so i'll repeat more like a rFactor 1.5 not 2.
I really don't see a problem with this. If people want to put their hands on RF2 only when there won't be any more updates from ISI, because they can' bother with an unfinished product, then sit and wait, but I bet it's better if you find something to do in the meantime. I bought RF2 as soon as it was a beta, and for me, by then, it was already better than RF1. Yes, RF1 made great leaps in the last years, thanks to the great quantity of passionate people that made great mods and plugins for it, but today, it's a fully developed product that reached his full potential. Hardly some more juice can be squeezed out of it. RF2 is at an earlier point of his lifespan, very early I bet. There is still a lot of things do to, but the day that someone will say "hardly some more juice can be squeezed out of it" are very far to come. We are somewhere in the middle of this endeavor, the only thing we can do is enjoy what we have, wait patiently for updates and enjoy it even more. The day ISI will say that RF2 will not be updated anymore, will be a sad day, but I bet it's at least 2 or 3 years before that day.
Obviously me too, that's why i bought the membership from DAY ONE. Anyway solving a limited amout of features per time to fully implemented status would be a better solution for customers. What would you prefer the current partial status like now or having less feature (that will be implemented in the future) but at their final stage? I would prefer the second one. That said the issue of the rFactor 1.5 still remains (even with a better feature chain), and surely when i bought i was betting for a complete new product.
I think ISI, or any other company that creates sims, is quite lucky that simracing is such a tiny niche group of players which will easily let unfinished releases slide. They wouldve never tried this if this was a mainstream title because the backlash would be huge calling the thing that released 6months or so ago a final version... Or whatever name you want to (don't want to) put on it, it went out of beta so technically it would be a 1.0 version which apart from features should work properly. Even at this point there's still so much little things going on from netcode, graphical oddities and you can go on.
well don't play it then, piss off for a few years and come back when it's finished. Completely pointless banging on about as you're not going to change anything, ISI are doing it their way as it's their game...end of.
Progress speed is frustrating for users But on the plus side , rf2 has elements that shows it could easily be the best sim out there overall A couple of really good builds would really really help ease frustration
Unfinished releases/continuous progress is the norm these days. I don't see how peeps get so worked up on that item. show me a game or sim that is final. small studio's and the big players alike release products knowing its not done yet but has to be released. patches, updates and fixes are to be expected. even on consoles. And if you disagree, just go to any game-forum after release and see the masses bitch and moan about bugs and whatnot, and developers stating 'it will be fixed upon next update'. Its just the nature of high speed internet that has changed the way developers think and work, and changed costumers expectations. Anyone expecting 'gold' on a disc is an oldfart (or unlucky with a limited connection) Moreover; at least ISI doesn't promise heaven and finished products and then breaks the promise with unfinished products. because that's also the norm these days, allot of studio's out there get pressured by publishers and have to release whether its finished or not. But apart from that, gotta agree with the OP. the more we use rf2 in our league and as individual users, to more it throws us back to 2005 when rf1 was released and everything was a challenge getting things to work properly, figuring out stuff, constantly running into new (undocumented) issues. And not just the 'new' stuff either. For me the 'with rf1 it was also...' comments are questionable, surely allot of knowledge and understanding has been acquired since 2005? Yet this doesn't seem to reflect in the current release. in some areas it seems to be rf1.5 indeed. On occasion even just rf1. I fully respect the complexity of it all, small team, big dreams etc. and in that sense I have more patience then some, but there is no denying that the vanilla expectations we had in rf1 don't fly anymore in rf2. One could then debate 'expectations' and whom is to blame for those, but a '2' alone should bring more to the table then the '1' in this respect. Just the changeover from rf1 to a reasonably functioning rf2 has killed communities across the board. that's a given and was to be expected perhaps, but having to go through the same routines once again trying to get things running again, and then chasing ducks getting members back in, whom all are suffering with different and often unique problems with rf2.... Anyways, still love rf2 btw, all those problems go away once I am chasing cars or getting chased, its truly magnificent once it works and despite all of the above bodes for a great future
Really, so having constructive criticism has no place here? we should all just stfu and accept whatever? And we certainly should not try to push ISI with issues that we think could or should be improved? or think with them as we are as equally passionate about their product? Seriously, the day that people stop caring and venting is the day ISI will close its doors for good.
I prefer how things are now. Do you know why? Because if development would advance per compartments, as you would like, then, this would mean that the first features developed and made "final" will be obsolete when this product would be considered "gold". So, how it could go gold a product that contain so many finished but obsolete features? I prefer to have a taste of everything RF2 is going to offer us, even if not perfect, even if not finished. Because I know that at each development, things can improve. New ideas can came out of the head of developers, and there won't be any restraint in updating a particular side of the simulator. As the goal is to make the most accurate simulator avaiable to the general public, I greatly prefer to see updates and revisions in all it's fundamental aspects. Putting a feature in the drawer of "completed tasks" would equal to the failure to further develop that aspect of the simulation, is just like giving up because it's too hard to refine it more. This is not a game that can be finished, a simulation, being an approximation of reality , can never be considered "finished". Obviously I would like a faster development, but I bet we are too little customers to justify the costs that only large production companies can put in this "game". I've been for a long time a fan of aircraft combat simulations, and that sector of simgames on PC had his positive age and his decline. There was a time when people bought flight simulator that they never used, just to sponsor companies and invite them to invest in the nicke. Today it appear that its a positive phase, there are very good products, and many other are work in progress. But guess what, they are updated almost weekly.
It happens every day with mainstream titles. And a lot of them give no indication that it won't be 100% perfect. We've been honest all along, and it still says right at the top of the purchase page under IMPORTANT just what rF2 is, along with the offer of a refund. How many mainstream titles either tell the truth, OR offer a refund? http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/rfactor2-purchase/ Two titles come to mind, SimCity and more recently X Rebirth. I bought both expecting a finished title as-advertised, and got burned. So please don't say it doesn't happen... lol There's still no important disclaimer buying XR that you're walking into where rF2 was a year+ ago. We've asked all along for people to give this feedback. And even if I reply disagreeing or with some other answer about the points made, you'll notice I never tell people to not post it. The original poster simply made the point to only allow the answer to be the answer he wanted, which was not possible - and I said so.
Nice post Comante, it shows just how widespread all of our expectations are in this, and how difficult it is to have one path to glory. its almost impossible to please everyone and perhaps one of the underlying issues in threads like these. Everyone wants something else to excel, we have realism-fetishists whom only care for physics/tires, then there's casual simmers wanting the basics to work, modders demanding stuff, painters demanding other stuff, league admins, server admins, plugin-peeps, video makers, wreckers demand a better collision model (lol) etc etc. And we all want it now, and with more focus on 'our' items. And as per Internet Code of Conduct, when we don't get it.... It would perhaps help a great deal if ISI was more transparent on what their ideas and thoughts are in this. lets say they do have a philosophy of 'doing it all at once' and they have valid reasons to do so. why not communicate it. On the other hand, that might just open up another can of worms
Yeah I know, I was merely responding to the 'don't play it then' comment. that was a bit too much imo.
It probably will: Our software doesn't cost you a lot compared to what it is or will be, because of how it's made. You'll end up paying less, and end up getting more. Because of the things people don't like. It takes more work, more time, and to make that time reduce, more people, consequently more money, to do things any other way. We've both added and lost staff during rF2 development, and are bigger now than we were in 2012, but we want to deliver a product at a price we can deliver to, and essentially that is what dictates the company operation and method as a whole. Perhaps some people would have been happier paying $156 a year and buying each piece of content to help fund early development of rF2 in return for some extra features added, but Gjon doesn't have a philosophy of upscale and downsize with his studio, hiring, firing, etc (you'll notice he is still in business since 1992, who else is?)... rF2 matches the studio as a whole, with gradual, supported, growth. This is why any time sink like the upgrades from standard to lifetime are a big deal to us, staff time is literally a loss of money.
Tire Model Physics improvements RealRoad Weather Skin transfers GetMod Improved content management HDR Dynamic clouds Better day/night transitions Improved plugin API (you say you are a programer so I am sure you have checked out the API right?) Just a few things that come to mind. Are you sure you own rF2?
