HDR Modification / Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ZeosPantera, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    The key element to get the track in devmode are the scn and gdb files. I allways extract all mas files to the ModDev/locations/trackname folder. You need MAS2.exe for that.

    Example for Silverstone. My rFactor2 datafolder is "F:\rF2Data\". Moddev folder is "F:\rF2Data\ModDev\".
    Create the following folders:
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\GP_Layout
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\Assets
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\Assets\ANIMs
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\Assets\GMTs
    F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\Assets\Maps

    Now run MAS2.exe (F:\rF2Data\Support\Tools).
    Open "F:\rF2Data\Installed\Locations\ISI_Silverstone_2012\1.01\Silverstone.mas", select all files (Ctrl + a), rightclick and select "extract". Extract the files to "F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone"
    Do the same with the other mas-files and extract them to the corresponding folders. The file paths are defined in the scn-file for each layout (F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\GP_Layout\SILVERSTONE_GPLAYOUT.SCN).


    To get the track working with your testingMod.rfm you have to change the TrackFilter (TMOD for testingmod, defined in the rfm-file). To do so open "F:\rF2Data\ModDev\Locations\Silverstone\GP_Layout\SILVERSTONE_GPLAYOUT.GDB" in notepad and add TMOD to the filter properties (Filter Properties = GTWEC rFRS F2_2012 RCC ISIFM WSFR RMT TMOD). Save the file.

    Now the new track should show up in the selection list in devmode.
     
  2. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    Thank you so much for that walk-through Tosch..

    As your you ISI... What the hell.
     
  3. rongarz

    rongarz Registered

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    (Sorry to bump this older thread. My own new post on the topic disappeared, but I seem to be able to post replies.)

    I've been reading about custom HDR profiles here and testing a few that have been posted.

    I'm currently using the TrueLightsUltraHDR hdp posted by INSQMNIAC.

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/19930-TrueLightsUltraHDR

    That's getting close to what I'm looking for, but I'd like to tweak the settings to lighten the shadows a bit. I want to keep actual dark and black colored objects the same and have a similar overall contrast, and only tweak the shadow brightness to be less dark.

    Here are two screenshots, first with TrueLightsUltra (shadows too dark):

    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13847


    A quick image edit to show the lighter shadows I'm looking for.

    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13848


    Which of these settings should I adjust and which direction + or - to get closer to that look for the shadows, without changing actual dark and black painted textures?

    SkyType=
    StartET=
    AdaptET=
    Luminance=
    WhitePoint=
    BlackPoint=
    MiddleGray=
    PostGamma=
    AirMassMult=
    ShadowDiffusion=
    LocalCloudIntensity=
    SunTransLum=
    SunScatrLum=
    MoonTransLum=
    MoonScatrLum=
    UseBloom=
    BloomWhitePoint=
    BloomThreshold=
    BloomOffset=
     
  4. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    You need more ambient light (SunScatrLum=) and less direct sunlight (SunTransLum=). More shadow diffusion would do the same but the parameter is hard coded in game.
     
  5. coops

    coops Banned

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    Tosch has a very good knowledge of hdr im always interested in his posts. i wonder if isi has ever thought of hiring or maybe even getting him to sub contract to them ?

    Tosch is there a reason they cannot complete this so its not always changing from build to build ???????????????????????????????
     
  6. rongarz

    rongarz Registered

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    Thanks very much for your help, Tosch. Here are my results below after many incremental changes and screenshot comparisons. I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would be nice to see an in-game interface for making these tweaks as well as a simulated preview of settings in a grid comparison layout.

    From INSQMNIAC's TrueLightsUltra default settings, I arrived at these changes to the existing values:

    -0.05 PostGamma
    -3.5 SunTransLum
    +2.5 SunScatrLum

    Still not exactly where I would like it, but much closer. I wasn't able to isolate changes to the shadows only, so there was a trade off with the look of the overall scene.

    original (dark shadows)
    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13867

    my changes (lighter shdows)
    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13866

    original (dark shadows)
    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13865

    my changes (lighter shdows)
    [​IMG]
    View attachment 13864
     
  7. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    I would experiment a bit with autoexposure (MiddleGray). Try values from 1.20 to 1.50 and at the same time a higher blackpoint setting (4 - 10) and lower gamma (1.75). Allways check the cockpit view (in tintops). The outside world becomes much brighter with high autoexposure and you have to compensate that with higher blackpoint. I usually switch between cockpit view and hood view and make sure both views have the same brightness.

    The biggest problem is the time around sunset/sunrise. You have to figure out the exact point where the blackpoint should be zero and that is the reason why different tracks should have different hdr profiles. If the sky becomes to bright at dawn reduce the airmass (0.5 - 1) and adjust the whitepoint (2.5 - 6).

    The only way to fix the very bright tirewalls and curbs is to desaturate and darken the texture. The tirewall has a wrong shader (only this track) and is either fully illuminated by sunlight or not at all. This can only be fixed in 3ds max.
     
  8. rongarz

    rongarz Registered

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    Thanks again for all the tips, Tosch. I will give your suggestions a try. I saw the earlier posts mentioning "Black Point: don't touch this" and "BlackPoint=0.0000 // I suggest to leave it default as it could create clipping." I suppose it won't be a problem if I compensate with values for other settings. I don't think I'll be editing textures, but I want to learn how to adjust the driving and replay scene view HDR settings to my liking.
     
  9. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    The way the black point works has changed since ISI introduced the automated hdr but it should have zero or negative values at night.
     
  10. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I might be wrong but IMO HDR is just acting today as an image modifier. Apparently, the available parameters relate to ambiance lighting characteristics. However, it is clear that atm is just compensating the lack of standardization of the original materials between diffeeent tracks. The amount of parameters than can be adjusted if we combine each material with hdr is simply huge.

    The only reliable way to deal with this seems to be trial and error and building experience about it as Tosch has already done.
     
  11. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    You are right. The standard material settings are way to weak. You can barely see a specular reflection on most materials. The automated hdr profile tries to deal with that by using very high amounts of direct and ambient light (stronger light = stronger specular reflection). It looks like the reflection map is calculated with the same high hdr values and becomes very bright. You can see this effect on the URD endurance cars. At noon the reflection on the windshield is way to strong because the SunTransLum (direct sunlight) value for the automated hdr profile is 40 (ambient light is always 50% of direct sunlight). At Nordschleife I use values between 2.5 and 5 for direct sunlight and 4 -5 for ambient light. The reason why this track still has a good specular reflection are the different material settings (made by pleclair) and brighter spec maps.
     
  12. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Unfortunately I do not expect any help from ISI's side. Documentation is not among their priorities. I personally am considering abandoning track modding until the correct tools are developed. I cannot waste all my free time trying to figure out things just because some decided that everything was perfect as it is. I leave modding for them.
     
  13. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    My only suggestion is to NOT use and think the HDR as an image/output editor as it isn't and it wasn't. The HDR pipeline it's managing lights and scattering, stop. Don't use it to make things shiny or extreme. That's the material/shader job.

    Focus your work on Art (Material/Shader settings and textures), leaving the automation doing the job. It's not our fault if you guys are introducing so many variables into account; HDR parameters ARE NOT part of the material/shader tweaking.

    So, it's up to you guys; at the time you start using the HDR profile as a texture compensation tool (wrong), you're making things far more complicated and unstable along the entire time cycle and for different lat/long locations. That's what the automation is doing for you.
     
  14. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    The yellow and red stuff are absurdly over saturate in SS posted above.
     
  15. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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  16. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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  17. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    I understand rF2 as a modding platform. It was absolutely clear from the beginning that we will see a lot of rF1 conversions with LDR textures. So in my opinion it makes sense to have custom hdr settings to reduce the effects of the light source. Another option would be to disable hdr for these tracks but then you would loose all new features of the gfx engine.
    The automated profile is not the general solution to all texture and lighting problems. There are a lot of tracks where the sun shines through the ground (and not only old tracks, check Indy for example). The spec maps go crazy at night (invisible light source?). The timing for the black point has to be exact, otherwise you end up with a pitch black screen at dawn. The tonemapper creates strange purple artefacts on dark areas. The difference of brightness on billboards (illuminated side/ non illuminated side) is to much (black trees). Missing specular reflections because the material settings were created for a different lighting model (see Mills for example and the included hdr profiles). Modders use these settings as reference and they should clearly not. That's why feels3 Poznan track looks so special. He created his own set of material settings.
    I know it's a tough job to create a fully dynamic virtual environment and I don't complain, ISI's main focus should always be on the physics side, but some of these issues should be addressed in the future and communicated to the rest of the world, like you have done with the texture saturation.
    http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/devscorner/texture-maps-and-color-saturation/
     
  18. MerlinC

    MerlinC Registered

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    Recognizing all the opportunities to tweak a szene I'm asking myself whether there is an option to force a specific HDR profile for league races.

    From my point of view a driver which does not have the optimal HDR profile does have a big disadvantage if he does not see the apex that in the shade compared to someone else with a tweaked HRD profile. Can rainspray be modified in the same manner? Does anyone know whether there is a opportunity to fix the HDR profile from server side?
     
  19. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Sure you can use custom HDR profiles for whatever reason but the important thing to remember is the "STANDARD" concept.

    What a standard does is to give us a base to work with, and making things stable and predictable. Making a custom HDR for a track, and then creating textures (and mat settings) to work best with that specific profile, make things unstable and unpredictable, especially for those using the automation and/or a different profile and/or tweaking the .gdb file for a track variation etc... Don't forget about people going crazy with that aspect in the past. At the time we was going nuts every new track due the different lat/long and the HDR paradox; you can't create a HDR custom profile without the track and objects and textures...(.HDP was a very final pass) and this means you had to work with textures messing with the viewer HDR tweakbar to make things looking properly for that place, and then you had to balance all this stuff bouncing here and there between mats and HDR... for days and days just to close that "crazy puzzle". Now we're just focusing on art and shader settings, as the automation it's a standard, working out of the box, for every lat/long and time cycle. It is not perfect, can be improved, but it works miles better than before. It is stable, it is predictable. For pros and cons.

    Now, what you're pointing at in your last post, are mostly issues related to the engine limit (and/or issues or bugs still to solve) and there is nothing you can do to solve it from your desk, without masking it - pushing or pulling a value on something, and maybe creating another issue on a different condition or track usage. That's the compensation loop...most of the time a trap, if we don't keep the focus on the entire time cycle and any consequence caused by a wrong tweak to make things working good for a specific condition.
     
  20. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    What is very understandable Tuttle!
    I see the philosophy behind this when I see such an old (the first?) track as Belgium 1966.
    It looks NOW and with AUTOMATION HDR very stunning!
    I find it logical that a standard must be set and the textures, shaders and things have to be set right for THAT standard.
     

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