NVIDIA (and possibly AMD soon) PURPOSELY ADDING INPUT LAG!!!!!!!

Nvidia purposely adds an ENTIRE FRAME (16.7 ms @ 60 fps) of ADDED INPUT LAG when using their cards in Multi-GPU form (cards in SLI, dual cards eg. GTX 690, etc). They put in an entire full 1 frame delay in order to get rid of multi-GPU stutter/micro-stutter/frame skipping.

I just found this out a couple of weeks ago. With all the talk of input lag, and how important it is to us sim racers who at times are making VERY VERY FAST pedal and steering inputs/movements, I thought that this would have came up a while ago.

AMD are supposedly coming out with "prototype" drivers in June that are supposed to really help with multi-GPU stutters/micro-stutters/frame skips (probably for single GPUs as well, like they have been doing ever since the 13.2 drivers). There is a lot of anticipation for these new drivers in the gamer/pc forum websites. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE that this NVidia 1 frame delay thing IS NOT the tactic/solution that AMD uses.

 

Oh noes input lagz.

You do realise the input lag from your brain to your hand is actually a lot higher, right?

I don't think you will notice and can therefore keep your pantz on.

 

I find extreme irony with your profile picture

 

Nah, anyone who has played arcade games at a competitive level knows that even a single frame of additional input lag in the game software is distinguishable. Sure, your monitor/keyboard lag is bigger technically but there's absolutely a noticeable effect.

That's why a lot of people prefer https://shmupmame.wordpress.com/ shmupmame, because it reduces input lag by up to several frames for certain arcade emulated games.

 

I used to have a beautiful IPS monitor that had 18 or so ms input lag, now I have a cheap, low IQ, but fast TN panel (Samsung PX2370) that has been rated at only 3.3 ms input lag, and boy did I see difference in driving improvement!

People shouldn't say it doesn't make a difference, it makes a huge difference. Maybe it can't be felt when just doing a normal lap, but in situations where very quick movements are needed that's when it makes a difference. You might not even be able to physically feel (and almost definitely not see) the difference, but you can "notice" the difference in how much more accurate and consistent you can correct the car in hairy situations, and keeping it in line with very quick mini corrections.

Again, you might not be able to feel it, let alone see it, but you can notice it when you analyze how much better your car control seems to be (not massive difference, but it's definitely different). I used to over-correct rear slides much more on my 20ish ms input lag monitor vs my current 3.3 ms one.

 

isn't that software for emulators?

 

Well yes but you forget monitor input lag is added to the total input lag so it does matter no matter how slow your brains are. It really is like Spinelli said - you can't see it but it makes difference.

 

Not to mention, look at how many people report better control and connection to the car when they try 120fps (regardless of actual monitor refresh rate) vs 60fps. I think that is more proof that even 8.x ms of input lag already makes a difference to our driving, let alone 16.x ms.

I felt the difference in certain situations in my driving (quick wheel movements, correcting big slides, super fast but small mini corrections), even though I could hardly see the difference from the "turn real life wheel fast and compare it to on-screen wheel" test, but I could definitely tell the difference at certain times just by car reaction relative to what I was doing

 

I wonder if you knew how many different lag inputs there are from your eyes to the screen, whether you would begin worrying about them, too.

 

Yes. Fighting game community talks about this nonstop. Same with shmups, tetris, etc.

 

Again, it makes a difference, and it has made a difference in my driving when moving from a 20ish ms input lag monitor to a 3.3 ms input lag one.

If I am lapping a second or 2 slower it won't really make much difference, you sort of subconsciously adapt to it because it's so small you cant even tell. But when you are on the limit, when you need to do extreme quick control inputs, and then you come to those same extreme situations but on a less input lag situation, you will see how many times you magically don't over correct the car, how many times you magically catch/control/hold a slide (and hold it with added precision).

You don't go "yup, I know for sure it was the input lag, what a massive difference!", you just subtlety feel it and know those teeny tiny differences of added control/precision, loosing the car less often, etc. were due to just that small amount of less total input lag, regardless of how big or small that total input lag may be.

I have experienced this more than once, it's not just a theoretical opinion. I (and others) have been affected by it, regardless of wether someone may believe that a certain amount of input lag may make a difference or not, regardless of wether people feel it/notice it or not. It makes a difference, it is there.

 

I have two RF2 systems here. On the one with ~25ms less monitor input lag it is a lot easier to catch a car. Funny it's the system created with fallout components which is better to drive ...

 

In audio recording there is always latency. Getting that down to a few ms has become simple these days. But as a recording musician you are constantly hooked up to headphones, where the playback can be anything from 2-100ms behind. This has been the norm in the industry for a long time. The thing is, your brain automatically compensates for the delay, and allows you to play perfectly in time with what you are hearing through your headphones. Interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure you dont know whats gonna happen in competitive games... What exactly is your point of trying to dispute lag?
Or are you one of those "I use vsync cus it looks better and theres no difference" kind of guys?

 

Interesting indeed but IMO can't be compared to racing sim 'cause in music tempo is constant and you also know what's coming next but in racing sims one can't accurately foresee when for example rear tires are going to lose traction and therefore low lag helps 'cause it will allow one to react faster (no matter how slow your brains are).

On this issue resistance is futile!

 

Are you that simple? The point is disputing the SIGNIFICANCE of given lag. I am not disputing the EXISTENCE of lag. Talk about strawman arguments. The fact is, the driver companies are doing this for functional reasons.

Vsync is simply a method of avoiding tearing (where DIFFERENT locational information is displayed in the SAME frame - not exactly helpful if you really are using your 1FPS reaction time as a guide..). It works just as well at 60, 120 and 200hz. Of course it is ''better''. It is only vaguely related to lag. I guess those refresh rates are not fast enough for your monster reflexes..

What about running games at 1280X1024 to maximise your FPS and thereby minimise your input lag? What....you don't do that?

Anyhow, there is no point trying to discuss it with the angry mob.

''Conform to our terror of lag, down to the last picosecond - or do not talk."

Cmon. It is a matter of what is acceptable, and what classifies as insignificant.

 

Yes indeed and it also varies from person to person. I would say the faster and more skilled one gets the more important role lag plays.

Yes it does work equally well on all monitor refresh rates but at lower rates it creates more lag. At 60 Hz it's causing massive lag (that is for racing simulations, in my humble opinion) but at 120 Hz it's tolerable - at least to me.

 

I have heard this argument far too many times. Think about your comment a little. Your saying that because our brains are slow that it doesn't matter that the game is also slow? This logic is very flawed. Our brains don't start to react until the image hits the screen. So if the screen is already behind it puts our slow brain at an even bigger disadvantage. You don't see people in real life saying, "I have bad front ball joints causing a lot of slack in my steering but I am not going to fix it because my brain is slow anyways, who cares if my steering is lagged a little"

Any lag that can be prevented needs to be taken very serious. These people that sugar coat it trip me out.

 

Man you really have a hard time gasping this. What does audio recording have to do with this topic. So yeah your brain compensates the lagged audio. This is possible because you already know what to expect. You know the future so to speak. You can't compensate on racing. You can't say, oh in 500ms my rear is going to snap so I am going to counter steer a little early.