[REL] EnduranceRacingX EGT by URD Update V2 July 2016!

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by UnitedRacingDesign, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    The cars dont drive very well with default setup. A little work is required, use similar spring rates at front and rear, around 190 for example as a starting point.
    Lower differental lock, increase front splitter and/or lower rearwing should also help.
    Maybe keep away from Arthur Merlin and Bayro at first. ;)

    Get those cars in balance, and they impress you!
     
  2. StrawmanAndy

    StrawmanAndy Registered

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    Not to sound stupid or rude but I'm not brilliant at setups. Yes I understand the idea of what they do, but I struggle to find that sweet spot with all these different options. From my experience of other cars, such as ISI cars, changing setup will change the feel of the cars but shouldn't make the car's much much quicker. I've found a couple seconds at best, but in general a setup should be finding the car handling to suit your style. These cars only reward one style, slow and smooth steering. I prefer to drive a car with the rear, I really need the front to grip and never understeer. I've found most cars I can change little bits of the setup (nothing like a major overall of everything) so I feel more comfortable with the car having more oversteer, even the FWD car's of Clio's.

    I'm just disappointed because I paid money and in over a year's time since the last update all that has happened from my view is that the car has just developed further understeer. I paid so I feel the mod should be ISI otherwise...why did I pay for something worse than ISI or free mods? I feel robbed.

    If the setup changes the handling so much, why has the author/modders made the default setup horrible? Sorry but to me giving us a crappy default setup seem's silly and lazy. I'm never going to be lighting quick or find that perfect setup but one that is good and balanced would make sense....

    Not trying to be rude, but that's my opinion. I had high hopes and I think I speak for many others who have felt the same. I believe you have the ability to make this mod a good one, but right now I don't want to drive them nor would I recommend them. I'd tell people to stick with ISI Corvette.
     
  3. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Seeing a post like this makes me a bit angry (or rather sad) I have to say. Why? Because you only consider you and few other people's side. While many many many others including me finally got sth that's worth buying and having. Because if we had a car that would be like you want it to have: no understeer no matter how you drive it and what setup would you use then sorry but me and many others wouldn't even consider buying it. We could play: "our side is the best, we are many, you are few" game but let's not go there.

    I also paid for the mod and I expect it to be as good as it can be and I consider a good mod that feels right, that responds properly to setup changes and requires smooth, proper driving. Like a real racing car. No car wants to be driven poorly with hillbilly setup. Not a single one in the world. Yet you want and expect it to be like this. Why?

    Next thing on the list: Why default setup is horrible? It's not horrible. Not at all, it just punishes driving in a wrong way more than a better setup. Also every person is different and for one this setup can feel meh, for another horrible, for another quite good. For me it's meh but I can change it to make it feel like I want it to. To make it stable, fast and comfortable.

    What makes me angry and sad? I know it's selfish, I know. But it pains me that comments like this could influence a way how this FANTASTIC mod right now can transform into bland, boring car pack that would drive away so so so many people here including me. You feel robbed? How would I feel then if I found out that a car that makes me giggle like a little girl out of joy and pure magic it produces is a thing of a past? Disappointment is not a word I would use.

    You seem like you want an easy way out. Don't change yourself, change the mod. Because it's easier this way. Why not try driving it like a proper endurance racing machine would ask you to? Learn how to setup a car in general, not just this car and benefit from it all around, across all cars that exist in rF2.

    It's not only your perspective, other people see it differently. I really hope that you find in yourself some energy to actually try to figure it out because it's worth it. This mod is now bloody fantastic. Blows me away. I'm even considering buying it again and giving it away to a friend just to share the awesomeness of it. This won't happen if it changes to sth that loses this magic.


    One of the saddest post I've ever made. I know. It's just out of sheer sadness that we may lose this if people will keep on talking like this without trying to overcome the problems and struggles. Keep on trying to improve things and hopefully come back with a better opinion. :) Good luck!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2015
  4. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    I agree 100 percent, Ronnie. Great post.
     
  5. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Super sticky understeering cars? You want me to record a video that show how much it's not like you say it is?

    I even can drift those cars in slow corners at silver and control it at the exit of a corner. Very natural in a way of doing it also. Super sticky understeering cars you say?

    Mario Andretti once said: If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

    I discovered this magic I speak a lot about once I started going faster and faster. They slide, they drift, they feel angry and on ragged edge. Try it. You won't be disappointed! :D It's fantastic!
     
  6. JohnnoNinja

    JohnnoNinja Registered

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    Although I understand that you're disappointed with the drive-ability of the cars with the default setup, I would advise you to change a little bit of the setup according to the suggestions TJones gave. Just add a bit more front wing (on a normal track I would choose 4) and even out the springs, like 190 all around. That will gave a much better handling. Perhaps your opinion changes after that;)
     
  7. TeroD

    TeroD Registered

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    I will agree that the default setups aren't great. Not even when considering the fact that it's customary to make the default set very safe and "noob friendly". And from what I remember all the cars have the exact same default setup. And that's silly.

    But something else setup related that I don't quite understand is the people who want to remove setups from these games. It's part of the game, so take it as it is or find something else.

    And finally: you "feel robbed", really? I understand that you're disappointed because your expectations weren't matched but if you feel robbed then I don't think you understand what the word means. And if you do know what it means but still chose to use it then you're being melodramatic and very disrespectful.
     
  8. StrawmanAndy

    StrawmanAndy Registered

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    Yes I only consider my feelings because it's my opinion...stop trying to belittle me, I am allowed an opinion, and if I am unhappy with something why can I not speak up? Can I only speak when happy like you? When I'm all giddy and jumping like a pony(?) I'm pretty sure everything I said was just feedback from my opinion...never said I was right...

    1. I didn't say I wanted every car to be perfect front ended to my liking, I said I wanted the setup changed or different cars to handle differently with the setup allowing cars to be driven differently (i.e I could setup and feel the car turn in better or have better balance). If you read my posts I say I tune and play with the setup for my liking in different cars/mods. My complaint is that when I try and change the settings the car feels no different to me, in comparison to the experience I have with other cars on rF2.

    2. Congrats you paid too. I paid too. So did the others. So we are all allowed to write what we think of this mod, positive or negative because we should be allowed to express our true feelings. If I buy something in real life that turns out not to be what I expected then I would normally tell them because I paid my money into something I thought could be better. I'm not saying you are right or I'm right. I'm saying my feelings and what I feel, just like you did. It's called giving feedback, and in general feedback tends to give lots of different answers. Except I didn't write a long message saying how wrong you were.

    3. No I don't want it easy. Where did I say that? Is the Nissan GT1 easy? Is the Corvette GT2 easy? No. Seriously you are like the DailyMail, just pulling anything out of context because I'm clearly wanting these cars to stick like glue and be like NFS. No. I never said that, stop making up stuff that isn't true. I've watched GT cars race, so yes THANK YOU I understand how to race an endurance machine, and if I'm not mistaken they all say they drive flat out the whole race...so you push really hard? I'm used to changing my style because I drive everything, from FWD Civic at the twisty Croft, to Indy 500 racing. Every car is different I know this. But the URD is a mod I do not think is right. Not the "easy way out", I'm speaking from my experience of testing it out.

    Sorry but I've been reading page after page on this forum on bad, good, meh reviews of this new update. Why is it that when people speak their mind and say "actually no I don't like it" everyone who loves it jumps onto their backs and says to pipe down? Should I write a big lie and say it's great?

    I really hope you find yourself some energy to understand many people will have opinions that don't match yours. I never said anyone was wrong or incorrect to mine, I just said my story because as I have paid for this mod I feel I should of been able to comment about it without being told I'm being selfish and only seeing it from my "perspective." Stop personally attacking people who don't share the same view, I love rF2.

    The fact that URD has now asked for the people who didn't like it to test a new version suggests that in general people were disappointed...
     
  9. StrawmanAndy

    StrawmanAndy Registered

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    I don't want setups removed, I just feel that the tires and the way the cars are right now do not react the same as others. The setup makes no difference in my view and I struggle to get rid of the low speed understeer. I never said "ban setups" or "force it all". I don't like the fact that the default is miles off what it should be. I don't have hours to spend setuping a car up for one track, I have other stuff in my life to do. That's why I love the other ISI cars because they only take a few teaks to get setup for me to feel comfortable.

    No because I have never been a fan of payware mods. To me if the team does a good job, like ASR with their classic F1 cars I will happily donate because I see and feel their difference with each update, and because they release it for free I don't feel like they are only doing it for money. I paid for URD to get these cars, so I feel after a year the development is really slow. I paid and feel they haven't done a brilliant job. If you feel they have then you can feel and say that. But I question after a year what has actually happened? Have they worked throughout the year? Or has this been all done within a month? Payware I except to be quicker and up-to-date. I don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't understand why I should pay for something that isn't as good as other free mods. I think the URD team can be talented but I don't think 1.95 is worth paying for.
     
  10. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    Sure you are entitled to have an opinion even if you don't like it..... but saying URD has robbed you, or at least you have the feeling of being robbed by them. Well in my humble opinion that is just plain disrespect.

    verb (used with object), robbed, robbing.
    1.
    to take something from (someone) by unlawful force or threat of violence; steal from.
    (source: dictionary.com
     
  11. JRoque

    JRoque Registered

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    Hi all!

    Wow, I've never seen so many words written and so much thought put into arguing the intricacies, pros/cons and - of all things - value of a product that costs $10. I'm very much a noob and haven't bothered to look much under the car's "setup" but, to me, the whole rF2 experience wouldn't be the same without my Venom. It amazes me that URD puts so much effort into making these awesome cars and then charge about as much as a popcorn bucket at the movies. For that much, I get the right to make product suggestions but can't complain.

    So..... what's wrong with the default setup? Other than upping 6th gear ratio to get a few more tick on the speedometer, I haven't changed a thing. Are these setup files available for download/try from somewhere? It might be nice to exchange these and see which one we like best. You all already have mine, I'm on default :)
     
  12. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    First of all I didn't drive yet the new version of the cars, may be in two weeks time I'll be able to.

    After a year and half playing with RF2, I am now very reluctant to give a first impression of a car, because I have noticed that my evaluation of a car varies a lot with the time spent driving it.

    I don't think RF2 is the sim of choice for people looking for instant gratification, RF2 is a complex simulation geared toward people interested in car engineering, so I don't expect a default setup to be to my liking and to work on every track, I particularly enjoy tweaking setups.

    As to this mod, I have enjoyed 1.8 version many hours, so I am a very happy customer of URD.

    Many people that write in this forum have never driven a real car, if they have, few of them have ever driven a basic rear wheel drive touring, less a very powerful one, fewer without electronic aids, nor on a closed track, nor a racing car, nor raced a whole season.

    This fact doesn't detract them from making abrupt statements about how they should drive (it is a forum, so every one can express politely it's feelings).

    Others have had a successful career racing cars (it's not my case), never brag about it on this forum or elsewhere, enjoy driving RF2 and have a more balanced view of things.

    A Porsche in real life without driving aids and the same setup, will under steer a lot in some hands, even if it is a rear engined rear wheel drive car, and be perfectly balanced in the hands of another driver, so it is not surprising that the same occurs in this sim.

    Cheers and have fun racing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
  13. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    I can almost literally quote my test feedback here, venom=best feeling default setup EVER :)
    Between cars, the quality of default setups vary quite a bit, and that probably also has to do with
    driving style. It is something with URD seems to be aware of though but I don't think it is high priority
    as the cars are changing still with every tech update there is at this moment in time, especially with
    the latest test cars. You don't want to waste hours upon hours every time you update missing tech like
    chassis flex and cpm, those have to be ironed out first as they drastically change the cars.

    I wish somebody who actually drove a Porsche could confirm or debunk this once and for all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2015
  14. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    I can confirm for street Porsche, even if I haven't driven all models, depends a lot of the way you drive.
     
  15. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Well, I have nothing against this mod but I understand the expression to feel robbed:
    I paid for "setup fu" software some time ago. Some of you will remember it and their aggressive propaganda claiming others using it will be ahead of you if you didn't use it. After getting the money from who knows how many confident people they abandoned the project giving no support to their customers. IMO the software is not worth paying for it a single cent. The feedback you get from it is absolutely automatized. It is funny, besides, how the software takes some time before giving the feedback showing a progress bar of how calculations are being done, which is evident is an absolute fake.

    For sure, nobody forced me to buy it and it was stupid from my side to buy it without references. However, it is clear for me that they did know their product was not good and were trying to get easy money by pulling the leg of people.

    A paying customer has some rights, especially to criticise the product he bought. I understand that you all guys know trip advisor. For each reference of restaurant or hotel you can find good and bad references. Some people are happy and others aren't. They all can show their respective opinions and they are all equally valid.

    I don't think this guy was disrespectful since he provided the reasons behind his bad critics in a, IMO, respectful way.
     
  16. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    I agree with you he had the full right too say what he thinks about the mod. And he tried to be constructive. In the end, to me the word 'robbed' made it disrespectful. But that could be me who is thinking that only.

    Let's carry on back to topic (positive or negative) we all like simracing but we not all like the same mods.

    Have a nice day and enjoy your simming
     
  17. TeroD

    TeroD Registered

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    Firstly I want to apologise as I didn't really mean you specifically with the "wanting setups removed" part of my post. But your post did remind me of that and I have seen a few comments like that in these URD threads lately.

    Your reasoning for feeling disappointed for paying for the mod is perfectly fine and understandable now that you explained it. And you have all the right to express that. It's just the wording that I and clearly some others have a problem with. And this also ties into other things. If you want people to take you seriously and listen to your points then making melodramatic statements isn't a good way to go. And sometimes you just need to vent and say provocative things, and that's not inherently bed either. But you have to know that these different approaches invoke very different reactions in people and if you're provocative you also likely get replies and comments you don't like. So you either have to think ahead or at least be prepared to accept the feedback that might come when you haven't thought ahead.

    As for paymods, I think there will be more of them from now. Mods were free but times are changing. And I think people shouldn't see it as paying for quality but instead paying for the time people spend while making them so that we'll get more of them and they will be of higher average quality. It takes time and effort to make a decent mod. And the good ones will sell more than the bad ones, it's just how it will work. And it's true that some people will always "take the hit" for being early buyers. But it's not like we're talking about tons of money here. But a good rule is that if you think you might regret buying then don't buy it!

    I don't regret paying for URD mods. I've definitely had my money's worth of enjoyment out the mods already. But it isn't perfect by any means and the way you have to setup the cars to be fast and not destroy the tyres is a bit weird to be honest and I'd like to see that fixed. A year's gap in updates is long and annoying for everyone but not an inherently bad thing. I don't think they ever planned the length of the gap. They have lives and work and they have also been working on the prototypes all this time.
     
  18. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Out of curiousity. Weird how?
     
  19. TeroD

    TeroD Registered

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    First a disclaimer: I might not know what I'm talking about :D And my experience is limited basically to the C6R and Bayro.

    What I've learned as a rule of thumb is that springs hold the car up and so with a car that has 50:50 weight distribution you'd probably start with even springs front and rear. Though maybe you want the rear a bit softer for better grip and safety. Of course tyre widths and downforce then can change the actual spring rates you end up with. But as I said, a rule of thumb.

    And the cars do have that weird feeling of built-in understeer. No matter how you set them up there's this underlying feel that something is preventing the rear from coming around too much or too fast. I really like how over-aggressively you can drive them for fun. I was doing that with the Bayro at AMP last night. Just going crazy and stupid with it, braking too late and losing the rear, powersliding around the corners and stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, you can spin in these cars. I'm not saying that you can't. But when you try to drive them smooth and fast, especially in long high speed corners, there's this subtle feeling that even though both your mechanical and aero setup should give you oversteer you still have some understeer to fight off. It seems to be really difficult to get to a point where the setup is pretty much neutral. it feels like you're either getting a little too much understeer or a little too much oversteer. It's kinda of a "balance deadzone" :D

    So setupwise I tend to end up with surpringly stiff rear springs and still fairly high rake, with 4 splitter and typically 15-17 rear wing, because this gives me most grip and thus best laptimes and best tyre life. And by the looks of it that's not unusual to how many others seem to set these cars up to go faster. Of course there are more setup parameters that affect the balance, very dramatically even, but as I race these cars competitively I don't want to share all that stuff publicly :D Sorry!

    Dunno what it is though, maybe tyres, maybe chassis aero balance, maybe diffuser. Just my thoughts. I'm no physics guru, just a simple sim racer of 15 years :)

    Like I said I might not know what I'm talking about and to further undermine my own post; maybe this is how they set up the cars irl and we're just whining about something that is fairly accurate simply because we "sofa racers" know better! ;D

    Edit: Oh and then there's the odd somewhat stuff with rev limits and fuel mileage differences :p
     
  20. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    You would be very surprised and shocked how real life cars are sometimes managed in terms of setup. Strange values? No such thing in real world. If it works they use it. At least cambers now are in somewhat more what you would expect :) They react better.
     

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