What happened to the sim racing community with rFactor 2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Guy Moulton, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    ISI has to fix this problem with mods, series, vmods, etc etc, completely retarded at the moment.

    Also, they should have the "get mod" button ACTUALLY download the mod for you, as in the current (or entire series') car and track, rather than some 1mb vmod file
     
  2. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    That sucks, because MSR was one of the first leagues to use rF2.

    As for converting mods without permission- there's a right way and a wrong way. To do it without acknowledging the original modder/team and passing it off as your own work is BAD. To do it without trying to contact the orig modder/team is BAD. But the fact is, sometimes email addresses, forum nicks etc change and it is not possible to contact a modder. What then?

    This does happen all the time, especially when the modder stops driving the sim you want to convert from. Then you either leave the project to rot or you convert it anyway AND acknowledge the work of the modders who did the original work.

    It is illegal to make certain mods. I don't know what the legal framework is, but for a while the BTCC would pursue legal action against any modder who used the BTCC name or logos. That was the days when we had the BSCC and English Touring mods. TBH I'm surprised F1 hasn't gotten in on the act esp. with Codies owning the F1 201X rights. There's a difference between stealing and making money off a mod or doing it for fun and I don't know what the law of the country you are in thinks is legal or illegal. But something like a texture from a game is an asset like a picture is to a photographer and it would be illegal to take it and use it in a paid mod. But a free mod?
     
  3. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    +1 as simple as that.
     
  4. hoser70

    hoser70 Registered

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    If I can't use the mod how are they enticing me? If I see a locked room that I can't join, how are they enticing me?

    Easy answer - - they have managed to entice me to move on to a more friendly league.
     
  5. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    you write like its a bad thing for leagues to do it?... personally i can totally understand league admins methods and how you think they are an unfriendly league because they dont release to the public is bizarre...what for instance if its to help with there survival?

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/10192-F1-2013-f1ligue?p=139347&viewfull=1#post139347
     
  6. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Still waiting for an answer guy, where it's Bathurst and eastern creek for RF2!?!
     
  7. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Lawyers can be friends too :D

    Otherwise +1
     
  8. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    What ever you do, DO NOT release anything within next couple of weeks, my wheel is in France for maintenance.
    After that, you can release the crap out of rF2, go gold for all I care.
     
  9. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    That's the whole point dude- it was there, they had a server but it'll never see the light of day. There's no way to get it because that group decided to not share. They took down Bathurst, only EC is up today.

    View attachment 6161
     
  10. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    join there league you will probably get to race it then...they even give you there website so its pretty easy lol
     
  11. hoser70

    hoser70 Registered

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    No, I didn't mean it to sound like it's bad for them to do it. However, it would be nice if those that do host special events and invite the public to join and/or try it out. I guess if they have it soo good that they don't need new members, then more power to them. I've never seen a league that has it that good though.
     
  12. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    I dont understand what the fuss is all about since I was ready to jumb in and offer link if Fergy didnt beat me to it.
     
  13. hoser70

    hoser70 Registered

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    Umm... you just quoted from an entirely different thread.
     
  14. Diablo

    Diablo Registered

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    Others have brought up the legal issues. In short, taking someone else´s work and copying or transforming it into other forms without permission by the rights holder, by law is a copyright infringement and thus illegal, independent of commercial or non-commercial reasons! Some people have tried to sugar coat it, in calling it sharing, but all those rights lie with the copyrights holder. In many countries you don´t need to lay claim on those rights, by issuing a license or EULA, they are granted to the creator just by them putting their work on some kind of medium. Even if such creator infringed copyrights themselves, one would still need permission by the original rights holder, i.e. the company running the original real life track. Stealing stolen goods is still illegal.
    Somebody came up with fair use. That might very well be what is happening with "hoarded" content. One could say that by not sharing with the general public but only with a very limited group of people, they are on the legally safe side, because they are using the content in a fair fashion. Even if not, nobody not part of the inner circle can join to actually see copyrighted content, so there is no evidence that could be brought up in court.

    But I think we just need to look at what ISI are doing. They either create their own fantasy tracks or release real tracks under unofficial or fake names, same for cars, although we see more officially licensed content in that area with rF2. Why are they doing that? I don´t know, but I can guess up some reasons. First they want to save on licensing costs, because if you provide something that ought to match its real world counterpart and put the original name on it, you need to get permission and usually have to pay license fees. You need permission for several reasons, not only monetary ones. The rights holder might not agree with your representation of their product, i.e. if it presents it in a way they think is inferior to popular believe and might hurt their sales and/or reputation. There is also trademarks involved, that´s where the money comes into play. Plus, nobody can complain about a track not being totally true to real life, because you never claimed it to be, otherwise it would have been named accordingly.

    Another matter that came up were sponsor banners on the content. I think that is a totally different story. Let´s take that Burger King example. Why would Burger King have a problem with someone providing free advertisement? You don´t use the trademark to present a ripped off version of their franchise restaurants, which would really be a problem (see above). And my guess, why ISI aren´t using real advertisements, is, they don´t want to provide such freebies for companies that are known to spend millions to put it on the real car, track side boards what have you. It might also be difficult to come to an agreement on how much money those ads would be worth. Race07 has a system that counts how often a trackside advertisement is in sight, rFactor2 does not I believe. And Race07 provided other ads than on the original tracks, but those are actually paid for.
    Anyway, I believe Burger King would have a hard time to prove in court, that they are entitled to damage compensations, simply because you did not cause any damage, quite the contrary even and you did it for free.

    And for content not being shared like it used to be, maybe it is simply too early to tell. But it might also be due to people ripping content and "sharing" it as if they made it from scratch, totally disregarding all the hard work that went into it. If someone is so very very kind to create something of sometimes very high quality, which must be an awful lot of work, and then provides it to the public for free, one should at least have the decency to give credit where credit is due. And if such entity denies permission to convert it, you should respect that, they are well within their rights to do so. You should then go and start from scratch yourself and get a grasp of how hard it actually is.

    Speaking of free and paid content, I wouldn´t have a problem with paid (community) content, as long as it lives up to the standards of that provided by ISI. Even though there are plenty of very good mods for rF1, each and every single one of those I´ve tested, had issues, very often tires. Those issues put me off quite easily, but it is free content, so I cannot complain.
    And I don´t see a contradiction between ISI saying you don´t have to pay anymore for their product and them "supporting" third party paid content. If I don´t want to pay for that kind of content, I don´t have to, I simply wouldn´t have access to it.

    Oh and on a side note, anybody who purchased a lifetime license of rFactor 2 and expects only two years of lifetime, should be checking their maths. For that lifetime license to make sense, rFactor 2 must live at least five years.


    Best regards,
    Marcus
     
  15. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    aahh yeah I see ta
     
  16. johnconner

    johnconner Registered

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    Anyone got an oval track yet?
     
  17. corsa

    corsa Registered

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    As mentioned several times in this thread, there are several oval tracks already available, including Indianapolis and Pembrey.
     
  18. johnconner

    johnconner Registered

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    Were to find ??? who made them as some modlers there is no point communicating with.
     
  19. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    try using your eyes, its half way down this page:
    http://isiforums.net/f/forumdisplay.php/77-Locations

    want someone to wipe your bum for you as well?!?!
     
  20. johnconner

    johnconner Registered

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    Thanks and whats up with you ??? anyways i have a commode with a spray bottle does it for me. ;)
     

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