'Rammers', a different perspective

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/9128-Rammers-sometimes-a-little-shame-is-goodhttp://

Since the thread of reference is now closed and i am the subject of it, i feel i should respond to clear the air. I've already been asked about it in servers online and from the heavily edited and misrepresented footage some people may be fooled into thinking that i will spoil their race.

The video posted by Saabjock was not from a race, it was the final laps of a short qualifying for a pick-up race.

It's been taken completely the wrong way and twisted, so below is a vid with 3laps from each cockpit. You'll notice that i'd rather run off the track than make contact. Contact at the end was nothing serious as quali was over and we were both going back to pits. Just a 'hey watch mirrors' kinda thing. I said nothing about it but before the race started i said 'have fun '

I was actually relieved that i didn't hit take him out when i ran down the grass to the chicane, as i know how i'd feel if i was in the same position and on a lap to move me up the grid.

Saabjock could let me by but doesn't have to, whenever another driver closes fast on me i let them pass so i can follow and hopefully learn something. When i first caught up i thought i could attack the corner on the outside and pulled out of it as soon as i had nowhere to go. The second time i got caught out again. Not great driving on either part but it would have cost little to nothing to let me through and who knows the chasing car may have posted a faster time.

I was also using default set, Saabjock you're not slower because i have a good set. I've barely driven the megane and this was my first time at LRP in it. The megane is great to drive and really plants itself when on the throttle, but lifting off too much when turning will cost you a lot of time here.

Oh and last lap of quali i started just before the timer ran out, so there was a bit of a rush on

This vid is a decent guide on what to do and what not to do at LRP(yes i mean me too lol), enjoy:

ps. LRP is a fantastic track, great job ISI, this game(edit:sim!) is immense and getting better and better. Shared skins for Xmas would be a great gift!

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with Hectaris driving. He was faster by a mile and assumed a line always away from the actual racing line to try over taking predicting that the car ahead uses racing line to some extent, hence making sure that there is room for error and time for the other driver to make good choises for both their sake.
Other driver didnt use mirrors, or made poor decisions based on the information. Quite twitchy moves that cause Hectari having to evade and go off the track twice.

This post made sense, Saabjocks didnt. Protest dismissed.

When damage is set to 100% those twitchy people scare me because everytime you try to overtake them there is no guarantee that they a) know you are even there b) drive any sensible racing line at all. Then theres others who even in qualifying for some odd reason need to block the faster cars overtaking efforts, which is just braindead activity.

 

I agree, I wanted to write that in the other thread but while I was writing Tim closed the thread so I couldn't post my comment.
I wanted to say to Saabjock:
Except for that ramming at the end I would actually commend the other guy (you Hectari) because he did not make any contact with you (Saabjock) even after two unsuccessful passes. In many cases that kind of driving would have ended with both drivers in the grass.
That said, you could have been smarter about passing but since you didn't affect Saabjocks race I would only blame yourself in your place (Saabjock has nothing to complain about specially if this was only qualifying as you have now written).

 

Guess I was too soon with my frustrated kid comment in the other topic, this is a different side of the story
(But even after the end of qualify or race, be the smarter guy and don't ram )

 

Agreed. Don't give anyone a reason to accuse you of anything.

 

True...but love taps have been happening at the end of races,qual etc since...forever...no biggie at the end of the day

 

That it's been happening forever, doesn't mean I have to agree with it happening

 

yeh niether do i...but i wouldnt make a thread in a forum calling someone a "rammer" over it either lol

 

This clarifies the other post a lot. One shouldn't ever judge anyone based on only one person's views. If I would've been Saabjock, I would definetely have let Hectari overtake me. You can see on the video how Saabjock is sliding off the track in some corners and as it's only a pick-up race, I for one wouldn't race in qualifying too hard. Yes, Saabjock is ahead and he has right to choose his own lines as he's on a flying lap, but I'd still watch my mirrors and not make those twitchy moves which made Hectari drive off track.


And the end of qualifying ramming... Isn't that quite usual in pick-up servers? Saabjock didn't even lose anything as he was just about to return to the pits by stopping the car. It's just harmless bit of fun, nothing more

 

Simracing is short for simulation of racing. That means we should behave like in real life. Simulate also our behavior on track.

 

I'm on Hectari's side after reading both posts...

Have to admit though that I don't like the ramming neither at the end but I guess you were a bit cheesed off so I guess it's a bit justifiable in this case

As for the after race 'hug', there is always the horn, flashing lights and chatting

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing when watching the replays. Wasn't sure it was a smart thing to mention it though when we constantly see people go way over the top.

I think Hectari did the best he could during the race and it was clear to overtake a car that erratic isn't easy so he was force into that last ditch dive at the chicane in which there was not contact and Hectari paid the prize. The ram at the end wasn't unnecessary and was the cause of this thread in the first place. Like I said before, Just don't give reason for threads like this even at the end of a race.

saabjock needs to put himself in the drivers seat behind him before judging.

 

Okay this gives a hole new perspective, and looks very different from the first video/thread. Good driving from you for not taking him out. And if the ramming was when the session is over then, who cares you didn't hurt anyone or their race.

 

I like to think my sim car as real car and quite often I attempt to drive with it same way, I did that years ago when I did online racing too and after the session I did drove carefully to not scratch paint of my vehicle.

There were then less of this end session ramming, some did it and those were often doing it first and last time.

If whole this dispute or what you would call this, is because of such activity, even activity itself is not considered wrong, wouldn't it be easier and more constructive to not do such things in future?

When one knows each other, then perhaps this love ramming is less prone to cause negative effects like this.

Now think about if someone has motion rig and you ram him after the race, poor guy had just took drink to take a sip and then someone rams him making motion rig to make maximum velocities it can, surely one would get pissed with drink all over him. Rare, but still possible event, so I encourage to look other possiblities than the one first coming to mind and only after then to commit action.

 

Very interesting to see the 2 driving styles and see where each is making mistakes. I know I would be making a few more mistakes than both to be honest, lol. Ramming at the end of a session is a non-issue. No one gains anything because of it and no one loses. It might be a little rude, but still, a non-issue.

As for the passing, light flashing would have been helpful, if the lead driver was looking at his mirrors anyways. It is obvious that the lead driver, SaabJock was having control issues from running off track. This being caused by using a controller vs a wheel is hard to say, it might just be bad driving. He obviously isn't shifting in places where he should, which makes it appear he is running with an auto trans. This would support the controller theory to some extent.

The one thing I always believe is it is the person doing the over taking's responsibility to make sure that the pass happens with no incident. If the pass can't be done without a large possibility of creating an incident, then the passing maneuver shouldn't be done. Hectari does show that he is in more control of the car by a large margin and I would suspect he is more likely to be able to judge when an overtake was too risky to perform so I defer to his judgement on the likelihood of success of his pass attempts. Would I have made an attempt there? Probably, and with a lot less grace I might add, lol.

Of the 2, If I had to choose, I would race with Hectari on the track any day. Most days I would also race with SaabJock too though, so don't either of you take it the wrong way. The racing could just be tighter and more adrenaline pushing with Hectari as you can predict his movements better.

 

I think at old days we did use horn to tell I'm here, don't drive over me, like they do in India

 

About the 'ramming' part..... Don't stop on the middle of a circuit Then you sort of ask for it

 

Agreed . If someone jammed their brakes on in front of me, I'd probably hit them too.

Looked like someone trying to scam their insurance

 

Like seen on rucrash.com

 

I see this in quite a simple way...

We race rf2 (and others I`m sure) as simulations of real life racing so therefor imo there should be no blocking and certainly no ramming.

Treat the sim as just that, a simulation of real life racing and there should be no problems.

If I was racing in real life I`d let a car that is obviously faster than me pass and although I can understand tempers getting raised by being blocked, the last thing I`m going to do is intentionally ram someone potentially causing great damage to both cars and (in real life) possible injury to me and the other driver.

Simple...

If you wouldn`t do it in real life then it`s not acceptable to do it in sim world.

If everyone stuck to this rule and acted like grown ups there wouldn`t be any problems.