rF2 biggest challenger?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by taufikp, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

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    [I've driven an rF2 car from the trackside camera view to eliminate any physics 'simplification' going on in replays. And they still seem to 'bobble' over bumps, curbs and on the off-road areas in an unrealistic way and at too high a frequency]

    Don't know never driven from trackside camera. Never wanted to. From cockpit camera it looks pretty realistic and the "frequency" feels pretty right based on my limited experience driving to work. I would not assume you would see the same things from different cameras based on Einstein's work.

    [lol, I find those posts like "I know everything because I drive real racing cars, trust me" pretty funny, since they can be found on the forums of every simracing game, iRacing, NetKar, pCars, rFactor... and using almost the exact same words as you.]
    Seems a little harsh. Spinelli's experience driving racing cars is no less than your experience reading posts in the various forums.

    As far as RF2's biggest challenger there may be none. I suspect AC, PCARS, ect may be aimed at different niches. For example, based on history, RF2 may be aimed more at an industrial audience than purely consumers. Previous generations of RF were sold to race teams as well as other game developers. I would speculate ISI intends to do the same with RF2. AC on the other hand is rumored to be set for a multi-platform release. I wonder whether such different target audiences will affect the nuances of the final product?
    PS I'm quite pleased with my purchase of RF2. I admit I've never driven a race car but I did lose control of my Triumph Spitfire in 1966.
     
  2. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    True, data comparing the sim cars' actual phsyics/vehicle dynamics to it's real world counter part (especially if it's on the same track), and an engineer's analysis of all that data, is by far the best way to go to truly compare who has the best physics.

    The thing is though, you can do very, very basic dumbed-down analyzing from the driving itself to give an idea of the overall physics engine (regardless of car). This is NOT from going by what "feels" right, it's by analyzing pedal and steering inputs relative to on screen physics, and how the physics/vehicle dynamics are acting and reacting to all your inputs and it's physical surroundings, oh and I am talking about pure physics/handling dynamics, NOT from the graphics (regardless if it's live or a replay).

    Oh and what you said about U.I. and all that little stuff mattering because in a comparison between 2 sims with similar physics, the one with better graphics/U.I. will be chosen.... Well no 2 sims are similiar. RFactor 2, Netkar Pro (have barely spent enough time eith AC demo) and IRacing all feel
    COMPLETELY different to me. They all feel similar in one way, that they are all "high-end" sims, but the driving physics, even if some parts may be close technically on paper, feel COMPLETELY different in all 3.

    When I say "feels" different, I mean by analyzing vehicle dynamics during gameplay, NOT by what feels good in terms of FFB/in my hands. I believe FFB is a HUGE barrier to people when trying to determine physics, so I therefore try to not let that get in the way (as many wrongly do).

    . Even in live mode, the graphics engine is only processing a small amount of physics information.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2013
  3. Old Hat

    Old Hat Registered

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    How can you analyse inputs "relative to on screen physics" and say this is "NOT from the graphics".

    You're also implying in response to me that the graphics engine does a worse job of representing the physics than any other serious sim - they don't 'bobble' over bumps in the way I described.

    BTW, you described RF2 has being everything from 'maybe'.. to 'clearly' the best..'PERIOD' simulation. It'd be nice if you choose one to give people a sporting chance in an argument. :)
     
  4. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    rF2 biggest challenge is the small amount of sim users out there.

    AC is going the simcade route. Clear enough to anyone who takes a look at how they started and where they are now. Much like GT5, fans will love it regardless. Steam only, no pitstops or real road but more important are doors that open on the cars? AC fans don't care because they aren't trying to reproduce racing.

    I see AC as more of a challenge to pCars than rF2. Tech demo had some GT5 in it, car would understeer and was difficult to rotate. Forums are full of opinions so all I can say is get out to a track day in whatever you drive.

    rF2 is obviously a labor of love for ISI and I hope they stay the course because it is a unique product (I feel it is the only professional consumer level sim available) in a market flooded with simcade titles.
     
  5. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    testing the Demotech is known that AC is a pure simulator. There are many aids that can be enabled or disabled as in any simulator.

    http://i.imgur.com/cmG9qF9.png
     
  6. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    Codemasters says and offers the same thing, so does PD with GT5. I'm sure a lot of F2012 players with all aides off think they are piloting a realistic F1 car because codemasters says so. :D

    None of that matters though, if you enjoy it then rock on with it. I have no loyalty to any sim, I just want what can give me the most life like simulation of driving a car on the track with my T500, since I can't do the real thing often. For me, having tried the AC demo (I had high hopes), rF2 is a solid notch better.

    Consider my advice and do a local track day or two. It may be expensive but it will be a great experience and help you appreciate motorsports and sims at a different level.
     
  7. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    I can see what you're saying but having followed ACs devlopment for over a year now there's nothing in my view that says they wont be a decent match for ISI. They're just taking advantage and catering to a wider Racing enthusiasts audience, no harm in that...they gotta earn the dollar somehow! They have licensed some awesome cars themselves and have had real racing driver input, same as ISI, not sure where pCars stands on the latter of those two points and I dont particularly care as that title has'nt grabbed me at all.

    The AC TD was alright, did'nt set the world alight and I barely turned 100 laps but it did show that they are heading in the right direction, harsh to compare to RF2 in my view, that time will come when it's fully released!
     
  8. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    I think it's impossible to have doubts Assetto Corsa simulation. As I have said over there, and AC rFactor2 were created differently.

    They more or less the same time building and more or less the same number of workers, rFactor has many features now, but they are all unfinished.
    Assetto Corsa has fewer features, but those that have are finished. And when you leave we will be adding more features.

    Assetto Corsa takes years and sold as professional simulator, now people are adapting to more demanding (the simracers)
    Possibly AssettoCorsa is the new professional simulator Ferrari, Fernando Alonso said he did not use rFactor pro, using an infinitely more advanced. Also in the museum is the simulator Ferrari Assetto Corsa.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEesCdtTDTo
     
  9. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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    Red Bull use rFactor pro. Who is champion since 2010? :D
     
  10. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    :D lol
     
  11. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    How long are you going to keep talking about a product that hasn't been released yet?
    This is ridiculous don't you get it?
    You are trying to persuade everybody here that you know something before it exists and you are the only one that knows?

    Mama mia, what a persistence!!
     
  12. sg333

    sg333 Registered

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    He's saying a product that hasnt been released is better than a product he probably doesnt own. All you can do is laugh.
     
  13. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    And Ferrari some other simulator and i guess AC lately, who is losing since 2010 :D
     
  14. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    I do not say that. rFactor2 is very good and has very good features that surely does not have AC.

    It seems upset that these two games are compared, Assetto Corsa already has a demo and rFactor is already on sale. and there are some aspects that can be compared.

    I do not talk more, I will not bother.

    :D
     
  15. deak1944

    deak1944 Guest

    Thank You!
     
  16. coops

    coops Banned

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    didn't you get your refund from Tim ? if not take it and your opinions over to AC like he said.
     
  17. pas74

    pas74 Registered

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    "FAlonso"....Fernando Alonso said he did not use rFactor pro, using an infinitely more advanced. Also in the museum is the simulator Ferrari Assetto Corsa..

    yes and did an interview with him...

    most of simracers knows that rf pro has been used from many f1 team racers Red Bull included...



    i don't agree with any word you post guy....you post really like an ultra fanboy !!

    are you another al qaeda troll of Drivingitalia?

    do you have no doubts about : ia, multiplayer, collision and physics of ac?
    those are basics features.......
     
  18. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    It's not from graphics, it's from what the car is doing, sure, graphics can help give an idea with what the car is doing, we use a lot of visual cues in sims, audio and ffb as well.

    I firmly believe that RFactor 2 and 1 have less of it's physics engine connected to it's graphics than other sims. There's more fidelity and detail of the physics not being shown on the actual graphics side of things with RFactor than other sims. Just check out how different and deeper RFactor 2/1 seems when actually driving, compared to what the graphics are showing.

    When I said maybe, probably, period it was a figure of speech. I mean if not maybe the best sim to some, then it's probably the best sim to them, if it's not the best sim to them then it's most likely the sim, etc etc it was just a light-hearted figure of speech which doesn't really technically make sense. I thought that people would have understood what I meant (if not maybe, then probably, if not probably, then most likley), I didn't mean to confuse anyone or contradict myself.

    In my opinion, based on my real-life racing experience, years of simracing, and years of reading about vehicle handling characteristics at the limit (I love analyzing and picking apart handling characteristics) I think RFactor 2 is the best sim, by a long shot, in terms of overall pure driving physics/vehicle dynamics. Not perfect though, no sim is.

    Ferrari museum uses Assetto Corsa because they have a deal with Assetto Corsa simple as that. Rockingham speedway uses Live for Speed as their fun to play sim at the track, does that mean it's the best? One day the Bridgestone trailer came to the track for some sort of promotional day, they put on display an F1 Ferrari and an Indycar, they also had a sim inside the trailer that wasn't based on any sim we know, it kind of sucked actually, does that mean it's the best sim just because Bridestone used it? Saying a sim is the best because a company uses it for fans to have fun on at their Museum doesn't make sense.

    I believe Asseto Corsa will be very good. It may become, along with RFactor 2 and any RFactor 2 engine based sims (Come on Reiza! Simbin! Pez! Etc), my main sim.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2013
  19. Niksounds

    Niksounds Registered

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    YYYYAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNnnnnn
     
  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Why can't we get both sims? 2 different physics/handling engines, each with their own strength and weaknesses, that are both the 2 best (I'm assuming here for AC obviously) in the genre.

    Why not both?

    With first person shooter games I don't choose either Frostbite engined games (Battlefield, Medal of Honour etc.) or CryEngine engined games (Crysis, Farcry, etc), I choose both!

    Having said that (about FPS games), I know some people might say that's a bad example because most FPS games are just fun games without the deepness of gameplay that a racing sim has, so it's easier jumping from FPS engine to FPS engine, where as in racing sims jumping from physics engine to physics engine can change gameplay too much, this is true, however I believe that is a positive rather than a negative. No sim's physics are perfect, so purchase and drive atleast the top 2 or 3, rather than just 1, and it'll prepare you, train you, and increase your skills so much more.
     
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