Collision model - Game breaker - however no priority?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTrFreak, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    That had to be said, thankyou

    I know latency is an important factor we have to keep in mind when we ask for realistic crashes, BUT, even with acceptable pings (less than 80/100ms) there are weird things happening. Also, I didn't record it, but in a single player session I rolled the car, and it rolled a couple of times in a certain way (let's say clockwise) and without ANYthing being close to the car it started to turn in the opposite direction! There really ARE weird things happening. I guess impact forces are wip but how the hell can it be that a car, flying and rolling in a certain direction, starts to rotate in the opposite direction.

    You need some imagination to understand what I'm saying and I appologise for not providing evicence (if you'd like to put it that way) but this is all I can say atm. It really happened.
     
  2. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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  3. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Right, nothing wrong there...oh wait. Yeah I get the lag argument, but so far I haven't driven online with rF2 and expect to see some more improvement in crash physics offline.
     
  4. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    Dimitry:

    Ah, thanks for adding that one. That's the exact same thing happening right there. Really weird. Any information on that problem Tim?

    Edit:

    Knight, nothing wrong there? I don't really understand. There is clearly something wrong in that video posted by DimitryRUS
     
  5. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    If ISI needs help with this they should talk to Bill Zimmerman of The Sim Factory. They are partners anyways and I'm sure Bill would help them. Bill Zimmerman has written the best netcode I've ever seen.
     
  6. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    I can say for sure, the physical principle should be the basis of the dynamics. Rubber products jump, roll balls, bricks falling and so on.
    Here are all initially as it is not so.

    My guess, as appeared rFactor1.
    All perkrasno remember F1 Callenge 99-02. If I am not mistaken developed physical engine ISI. And beautiful at that time which was released mods for F1 Callenge 99-02. But rebya decided to make an excellent platform for modding, and in fact, rFactor1 an enhanced F1 Callenge 99-02.
    And therefore, as Tim said rFactor2 an evolution engine rFactor1.
    Now, do not be lazy and run F1 Callenge 99-02 and rFactor2. And try online too ... Question. How many parallels you can spend? (graphics, I do not think) just physics and online.
     
  7. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    LOL a native English speaker would have spotted mild sarcasm denoted by the "oh wait" Yes mate clearly something wrong.
     
  8. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    Actually, rF2 is an evolution from rFPro:

    [​IMG]

    http://imagespaceinc.com/technology/software-engine/
     
  9. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    So this engine is designed exclusively for Formula bollidov, no accidents, only single training and learning tracks?

    Okay then, well ... let him finish all that everyone could say, "Yes, I really did not see anything" .... But at this stage, even the first version of the NKP, Iracing, LFS S1-2 were significantly better.
     
  10. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    Hehe I'm sorry. English indeed isn't my native language so excuse me, lol.
     
  11. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    this is the end of my story regarding rFactor1-2 to the conviction of the physical principle of the engine.
    Real-time simulation of vehicle weight and inertia for all axes no will be.
    In ISI chosen strategy of asking the parameters at which the dynamics of the car. And just these parameters calculated. Therefore, neither of which the dynamic properties of the car in emergency situations speech can not go.
    To set parameters work simulators only ISI. Engines other is Grand Prix Legends, NASCAR Racing 2003, IRacing, NetKar Pro, Rigs of Rods and Live For Speed ​​work on the principle of the distribution of mass and the inertia of the machine in all axes.

    Accordingly, the ISI simulators are not capable of dynamics in real time. This is seen in all cells with the appearance.
    No car living there.

    The total for all razrobotchikov fanatnyh mods various racing series. Enter as many parameters that can be measured. Dynamics in the game no
     
  12. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    In that video, you have to take into account drag from the air. That's why it flies so oddly. If the damage model was more accurate, the car would fly apart and the drag would change and the crash would look more natural. Who knows- if a real F2 car that was indestructible really crashed like that, maybe it would look like that?

    I've seen weird flights and odd looking collisions (and non-collisions too) in the game- in all sims in fact. We have to deal with lag- from each car to the server. If you think about it, the lag you have with another car will be your lag + their lag. When 2 wheels are very close the game can only be so accurate when you are racing at speed. A thousandth of a second is all it would take to touch, but the lag is greater than that gap.

    It is something that will not be solved in rF2 or any other game UNTIL the problem of lag is solved.
     
  13. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Want to get rid of lag? Hop in a real car, no lag there, with the possible exception of the drivers brain, ;)

    Seriously though, even if everyone were using fiber optics you would still have lag when dealing with drivers all over the world. Light can only go so fast and that is it, nothing travels faster than light yet.
     
  14. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    I know what you're saying about drag but if you just look at some of those crashes, you would know that this is not anywhere near realistic. Drag, ok.. But a car flying and rotating one way, then hitting an (what looks like invisible) wall, and then rotating the other way is just plain wrong.

    Look at what happens between 47 and 50 seconds, and 56-58 seconds

     
  15. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    It is just shame that rF2 crash physics are not very sophisticated. It is obvious that online racing makes it even more crazy, but I am now talking just about offline racing. NASCAR Racing 2003 had impressive offline crash physics and it rarely went haywire. When car lifted from ground, it always looked very natural. In rF2 (and rF1) you can expect all sorts of anomalies when car lifts off (GTrFreak's video above).

    Biggest limitation which all games have to deal with is energy transfer upon impact, as long as we don't put that into our simulations crashes look way too massive. NR2003 crash engine was pretty perfect without this obvious limitation, because of that for example barrel rolls could go on forever. rF2 has still long way to get even near NR2003 level. In rF games there is something odd going on when car faces a situation our of norm.



    For rF2 defense I have to say that even currently, its crash physics are lot better than in rF1 which is pretty horrible...
     
  16. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    There was a very high quality Iracing basis NASCAR Racing 2003. These accidents and physics behavior based on real-time rendering of the body.
    The basis of a rF1-rF2 you know that ... Though the part was rewritten and the first, but the principle of calculating nobody changed. Oschyuschenie that all the parameters are constant, and the excess of which leads to abnormalities throughout physics.


    All of these collisions occur online. Quality is based on height, not only the behavior of the body but all clearly in place, and each machine works suspension.
    By my oschyuscheniya ride there is simply terrible, terrible car dent, every bump and the car just live throws, and with greater speed the car just rolls ...
    rf2 in all as it looks more, to cut corners just no problems, the car simply swallows. Hurt someone is not a problem and not scary.

    Physics engine ISI very high quality, but for the study of the track. Professional pilots. The study turns and trajectories joining them. Beyond standard situation not rFactor.
    ISI work with professional pilots is a serious trump card. But for online modeling and ordinary users who can not make all the parameters needed for proper operation, just does not fit. Therefore, the engine needed to calculate all in real time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2012
  17. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Old thread but still deserves attention. The league I race in today tried to run a winter event to assess whether rFactor2 could be used in the main season. After a few issues everything ran smoothly except of one big issue: collision detection. As you can see on the video below, the collision response is way exaggerated, especially in the incident taking place at 10 seconds. This easily sends cars to the air and provokes chain collisions which cannot be avoided. This seems to be an issue especially with light open-wheelers such as the FR3.5 car used in this clip.

    This behaviour puts me in serious doubt of whether rFactor2 could be used in league racing in its current state. I would therefore like to hear from ISI if any improvements are being worked on regarding this matter. I know the rFactor collision detection was not perfect, but in practise it worked a lot better than what rFactor2 does at the moment in online racing.

     
  18. Paul_Ceglia

    Paul_Ceglia Registered

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    is the detection mod specific? Or is the same for all mods because i know when in the 370 it doesn't react like the vid posted
     
  19. Johannes Kunkel

    Johannes Kunkel Registered

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    There definitely seems to be a difference between the open wheelers and the closed cars. The open wheelers and mainly the 3 formula cars react a lot more sensible to contact.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2013
  20. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    It's pretty amazing what you'll find in the known issues readme.

    -Some odd collision behavior is happening in multiplayer.
     

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