FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    You should maybe try to get used to the ffb feel, stop judging everything on feel. Although not the best by any means, It does drive better and more realistic than the "feel" suggests.

    I have played Forza 4 and Granturismo 5, some cars actually felt really good in terms of "FEEL", but when you actually analyse what you are doing, how the car is reacting, etc you can clearly see its dumbed down, over simplified, overly easy and not a true sim compared to the pc ones we play. Well if I just went by "FEEL", than I would think some cars in Forza and GT are up there with our sims. Sims aren not about best ffb competition, they are about best vehicle dynamics so that they act and react as close to real life as they can. Then on top of that of course the game makers need to make it feel as best it can because that is VERY IMPORTANT to us in terms of feeling the car, having a realistic steeriing feel, and just is nessecarry, but too many people judge vehicle dynamics based on feel, again, if everyone went by that then there would be ceratain Forza 4 cars and GT cars pretty close to our sims, and trust me those 2 games ARE NOT CLOSE.
     
  2. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    Well as I`ve already said, at first I thought the same about the new F2... no feeling of connection, weak ffb and understeer but as I continued to drive it, the more I felt how (imo) it is connected to the road, just in a much more subtle way and it`s ffb is also much more subtle but it`s definitely there. I also "learned" to control the car better and therefor help to eradicate the understeer.

    I never said the BT20 and 2012 F2 had the same amount of feel, ffb etc I said they are both very good sim cars but in their own, special ways.
     
  3. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I'll be having more sessions with it over the weekend, I'm enjoying learning this car,regardless of our opinions(as a sim community)think we should appreciate the fact that ISI have had direct access to real world formula 2 information & f2 drivers testing,I have no idea how much it will feel different (if at all) once those minor refinements are done,but if this is how a real world f2 car feels then so be it

    I bet the real world version has its flaws too

    After the next few sessions of using it I'll either stick to it or revert back to the bt20 (or use both)

    The bt20 quickly shows what ISI are capable of as this car dosnt need to be pushed right to the limit to show off high end simulator physics & "feel"

    Roll on the next rf2 build release (-;
     
  4. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    1:46 and change at Sepang with the F2?? I finally got into the 1:50s yesterday and felt good about it until I saw that. Same lines but I'm not getting on the gas as quickly in many places. Going to work on that some this weekend.

    I still think the F2 is the best modern single seater in the game. It does spin around ISIF1 like when the tires are cold but I'm getting tons of good feedback via the T500 F1 using the default steering settings after a good out lap. There are just a couple areas at Sepang that I'm working through at the same pace (gear + rpm is the same). i.e. Not sure a complete lap time can show someone isn't pushing the car at the limit at least some of the time. I'm obviously not there in most of the sectors though.

    Hiohaa, you have the coin to do some track days and anyone who does this knows it isn't cheap. I've done track days in my own car and events where cars are provided, both are good ways to melt money, so buying a T500 is cheap in comparison. Something to consider and see if that changes anything.

    BTW - I have yet to see a picture from AC where anything but a T500 or Fanatec is being used during development...
     
  5. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    Do you really have FFB centering force in corners, do you feel the resistance on wheel in the corners? Because I have almost nothing, like holding the the wheel in the air.
     
  6. To make it simple let's just say from my point of view that I really like to drive this car with my actual sim setup! ;)
     
  7. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Well that's one point I don't think anyone can argue , I don't know of any real car that does not aggressively try and centre + counter stear the car. Its simple basic physics of how cars work in that tires want to take the path of least resistance and that results in a car that will always counter steer to the path of least resistance.

    This F2 car has no centring force , what it does have is simple initia resistance and jolts.


    Maybe its just on the G25 that its broken ?

    Do some of some of you honestly think that this is how a real cars steering operates, in contradiction to every other car I have seen in videos or driven in every sim ever made with FFB ? and to every go cart and car i have driven in real life ?

    And that's ignoring the issues of how the car handles when it loses grip.

    Maybe this issue arises from the fact that some of ISI staff/testers DRIVE WITH CENTERING SPRING ON which makes no sense and should only be used with games that have no FFB.
     
  8. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    In Rf1, I think that ZR car had inertias bit too low and suspension bit too stiff. Few other little things, but I remember how I made bit of changes to it and it was quite lot more like real car after that, even with default tires.

    Formula 2 has terrible weight balance if I'm not remembering wrong, it was quite bit towards rear. If car would not be snappy, I would be disappointed as cars that have weight bias towards rear are quite snappy to drive.

    I have car in real world that has F53% / R47% weight bias and it is rather snappy compared to another car of mine that has over 60% front weight bias, that is so easy to control that even a baby could do it.

    If anything, I would doubt effect of heat to grip, take note of tire temps when you are experiencing things that you consider not being way you would think they should be, can you see how tires turn yellow at certain temp and how that happens really quick with F2 car even with small slide? I think that at that point, when tires heat because of slide grip is lost very much which then results feeling of there being no grip.

    Maybe that is bit under development as I can heat my tires very hot very quickly on grass too.

    However it does not prevent you to micro slide the car, only thing is that micro slide is not so easy to spot, it is very small nearly impossible to judge from video, when slides you can see are already quite large and that temperature thing comes to play.

    However this subject has been beaten to death, risen from grave and already we beat a dead, it has been said that tire model is not yet finished, all different opinions have been voiced numerous of times, I really don't see much to be gained from all this, but do carry on.

    What comes to rF1, Toz playing with my forever WIP mod back in 2007, you can really make anything happen with rF1 & rF2, so how they can be crap?:
     
  9. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    Yes, I get a ton of feedback with the F2 using a T500 F1, more than I was getting with the FR3.5. I know this is odd because when I read the reviews I thought it would be a bust given I felt the FR3.5 was already too weak. The F2 feels even stronger, granted I've only done Sepang in the car and that is a quick track. The FFB in the turns is solid.
     
  10. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    That's why I'm trying to figure out, do others have these forces when turning or not? Because many people write that the car is great and they have great feel for it, so maybe there is some problem on my side? Maybe there is some problem with configuration or so? But if they also have none or very weak FFB in corners, then how can they have this great feeling?

    I have Fanatec CSW, so it's not G25 only problem.
     
  11. feels3

    feels3 Member Staff Member

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    I have the same feeling. I have DFGT.

    I have the same feeling in every car in rf2 but in micro scale so it doesn't bother me, but in F2 it is very noticeable.
     
  12. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    Ok, so it's not the problem with my wheel or configuration. What is it then?


    What settings are you using (FFB strength in game and drivers)?
     
  13. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    How you hold your wheel?

    At slow corners I open up my fingers a bit, very light touch to wheel and there is feeling from wheel, FFB multi 0.5 and logitech effect 106%.
     
  14. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    I apreceat that , and games like GSC and GTR evo prove how you can set things up to work as you would expect real cars to. Though granted GTRE makes the cars to placid in many ways and I would not say the cars line up to real cars when operating within normal usage of the tires but at least they don't have huge holes in there physics.

    Why is it the case that vertualy all the ISI cars in RF1 are terrible and ISI keep producing cars that don't make any sense have strange behaver on the limit when compared to other simulators ?


    Is it just that moders fudge the numbers to get something that behaves in a realistic way through the full spectrum of driving ?

    "can you see how tires turn yellow at certain temp and how that happens really quick with F2 car even with small slide?"

    It doesn't matter how you drive how many laps you do or how warm the tires are if you get to the point where the tires go over the limmit then you are a hostage.

    Sure the tires get more and less grippy and you can take corners faster or get better traction things like that but when it comes to evan small slip angles and steering the car on the throtel for example its broken.

    No one has posted a video or replay file disproving this fact with the F2 car. Id like to just see one person driving the F2 car on the limit as you can see it being done in real life

    What I suspect is they are driving exactly the same way as me and that other guy yet seem to think they are doing things they are not, again if we are getting prity much the same lap times and driving the same racing line give or take then that has to be the case , or I'm some how controlling the car on the limit and totally oblivious to it..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2012
  15. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    With my ears, how do you guys hold your wheel? ;)
    No offence :)


    I hold my wheel (Fanatec CSW with Formula rim) firmly and there is just one way to hold frormula rim. FFB multi 1.0-1.5, FFB in drivers 100%.
    Mind you I don't have such problems in other rF2 cars.
     
  16. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    I can release my hands off the wheel in tight corners and and wheel is not moving. So force is none (after reaching exceeding some steering wheel turn angle).
    settings in drivers 107/0/0, mult 1.4
    With high speed and/or wider turns forces are quite strong otherwise

    +1
    Moreover, even when front wheels sliding, there are still mechanical friction which should add some resistance to the wheel. Also I believe there are still some fraction of centring forces. In other words: even if tires are sliding there are still forces existing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2012
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  17. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    I'm starting to think this may be a build install issue.
    I'm using driver 38 (pretty sure that is correct) for Thrustmaster T500 F1, should be the latest driver. They haven't updated it for some time. Everything is default but I have FFB set to 70%, up from whatever the default was.
    In the game I have everything default but the top setting, normally 20% I have at 21%, forget what it is called. The FFB multi is default 1.00 and I have it set to 1.02. The rate, the degrees, e.g. 540, is all default. I have head movement to 94% but I can't see that making a difference with FFB.

    Have you tried resetting the FFB while you are driving to see if anything changes?
     
  18. Schueppe

    Schueppe Registered

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    In have almost the same problem, seems to be a logitech thing. The thing is I notice the FFB is there and the car wants to tell me what happens but it's very light, sorry I don't know how to describe it better.
     
  19. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Interesting, I would say that one enters to understeer when there is no force at all, I try to stay away from such, I have rightmost pedal for that :)

    Everyone of course knows this, but still..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shwgNV36xFA
     
  20. JJStrack

    JJStrack Registered

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    may i ask how much camber you guys have at the front!? i noticed that with camber between 3.0° and the minimum you get much better FFB than with the standard 3.5°
     

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