And how would you do that? Would you force people to click accept? What makes think they will read it and not just click accept? Would you make the forum popup the getting started thread the first time they visit? What makes you think they will read it? What if they came here to look at some screenshots and we're shoving the purchase of rFactor2 down their throat? Sometimes people need to fend for themselves, and only be helped when they screw up. Failure to read instructions is one of those situations. You have to let a child bump it's head a few times or it's going to take a hell of a lot longer to learn how to walk, and it's not going to be as good at it if you haven't let it make a few mistakes. Anyway, I don't think debating the finer parts of human psychology, and clicking 'agree', has much benefit. If I ever want to write a medical paper on psychology, I already have plenty of material.
Good luck installing, congifuring a serious flight simulator and flying it without reading anything. This is not a game market with "instant drive" option. A proper simracer should know how to configure his "virtual cockpit" and he usually learns how to do it... guess where - on community forums.
Can't really say, can be so, can be other way. But even I know that making users to read instructions is something that is not going to happen, I know, I don't read manuals, sometimes I try to read but it ends up me seeing letters, dozing off and forgetting reading part and just poking things and finding out how it works, always works best Sometimes I think that other people talks about chicken and other from the egg.
If I was a new customer here, I wouldnt want this in any way. I came in this sim because it promised better feedback than the rest, what is the point of buying it and not having everything from the start? If I thought that this ffb here troubled me, then Ill check the FAQ and if it didnt solve problem, then I would search for answers. I think the discussion about g25/27 owners not having proper support, is another pointless (and unjust) discussion, trying to get into arguments, for arguments sake.
That is why I wrote wheel specific, I can see that rF2 detects my controller, maybe that could be used to adjust those other parameters to values that have found to offer most realistic experience with that specific wheel, it is probably on their list if I read things here correctly, but all due their time of course. Reading configuration files is usually enough, modding was such back in old days, I had no internet either, just hex editing files etc. Wish I could have that young brain back again
Well, I have G25 and I have not had issues yet, not sure where all that talk from those comes from, I suspect settings and ffb set too strong. After all, default ffb multiplier for cars is 1.00 and I use 0.2-0.3 as only with light ffb all forces are coming trough properly, small things are small things, big things are big things etc. Probably many of those having issues with g25/g27 have not indeed tried to find information about it and are just voicing out their opinion from ffb, maybe some have even default settings, don't know about that. If I face problem, I usually start to figure out what makes of problem, I systematically change one setting at time and try to find which setting is responsible, that way I usually have found culprints without too much of trouble, but then again, I like to poke stuff
Trust me - I've tried similar thing once. It doesn't work as well as you would expect People will surprize you by selecting "GeForce 7" graphics settings profile with all that HDR, displacement mapping, reflections, refractions and other eye candy while having only GeForce FX. And then they'll go complaining about performance comparing it to their favourite DirectX 5 game... The best way of making software "fool-proof" is stripping it of that little nasty thing called "choice". But I'm really no fan of software that makes advanced users pay the price of inconvenience, because other users lack that little f*****g sanity to select the right option, no matter how apparent you make it Besides - no matter what default values you will put into your software, there will always be someone who will describe a case, when those particular default values don't work well and based on that tell you that you have choosen default values poorly. So I say let people choose for themselves and if they don't know how they should learn - just leave necessary information in plain sight (FAQ, sticky threads, etc.) And this is exactly how it works here, so I don't see what's there to discuss
I wrote it a few times already. I would develop program in way, making possible to avoid reading anything which is crucial to get at least good experience on first run. Currently it looks like rf2 is developed for the best input hardware on the market, and other users must do some special settings. I would make def config of rf2 to satisfy majority of potential users (g25/27 owners) enabling filtering. Then allow them (especially owners of better wheels) to change filtering settings. There is also another way: if logitech wheel has been recognized, display popup with information about filtering, or even link to forum. Technically it is not something complicated. it might be added even to beta stage., but in February of that year - it would avoid of creating a lot of complains and unneeded 'rattling' related threads. Don't you think? I thought you don't want to argue rF2 is not flight simulator. However you just called 'not proper' all simracers which reported rattling and asked for a help/solution.
I still don't want to. I see discussion in similar fashion 195nikos does. That's why it's my last post. You completely missed the point. Flight simulator is complex => you need to learn a lot of things. Racing simulator is less complex => you need to learn some things. But it's still a simulator, a hobby that you put some passion into. Not a gift you find under christmas tree, unwrap and enjoy. So you still need to learn. That's the point that I contradicted to your "out of the box" concept. Why do you try to give offensive meaning to what I said? EDIT: That's just your interpretation. Number of simracers that have talked about FFB filter on forum and had it configured shows it can be done.
it is not offensive. It is proof you split simracers into 2 categories just because they are asking for things. It's not me. And I think you are not right. Number of reports says that this is not simracers fault. But why to force people to learn things when it is possible to avoid it? there is some mission or so? I understand that simracer should learn how to go fast, how to setup a car etc. But editing config files should not be his job. There will be always both groups present. But I though the goal of developer/publisher should be to minimize size of complaining one.
If I was ISI, I would if possible default to filtered FOR G27 ONLY. Then those that tweak will be rewarded for their efforts and tolerance of rattling and ISI would not have to hear all the complaining. Win-win I think.
I see it rather as "K Szczech is trying to explain something to MaXyM and fails / quits again" episode Feel free ( feel 3 ? ) to try your luck, though I'm done here.
Knowing you in this forum, I bet, if there were no issues for g25/27, you would strongly demand full support and instructions for my (buried somewhere and forgotten) Microsoft Sidewinder Wheel "Currently it looks like rf2 is developed for the best input hardware on the market" LOLOL is this an acussation? The opposite me thinks...
in my opinion the g27 is just fine. there is nothing which must be fixed nor am i looking for a solution. the ffb is fine, could be stronger. i would like to get scared of the wheel power when i smash a car against a wall with 300 kmh. the wheel was also loud in CM f1 2011 (toktoktoktok) when riding over the curbs. my brother thought it was broken but i just thought wooow ffb!!! (it was the first time i was driving a ffb wheel). that's the way the wheel works! there is no need for a solution here. no offense, just my opinion .
Interesting you only use .2-.3 multiplier jtbo, I would imagine thats very weak ffb, but I will try using lower values tonight, so far I didn't go below 0.75. Using filtering didn't satisfy me but maybe just decreasing multi to like 0.5-0.6 could make me comfortable everywhere.
Did any of you guys do the reel feel force feedback tuning thingy where you open rf1 windowed and then use keyboard to change settings to maximize range of feel force? I remember doing that and getting amazing improvement. Would something like that be relevant to rf2?
From logitech profiler I have set it to 106% strength as I did read that would give most out from ffb, with 0.3 it is quite fine. It should be noted that if one tries to get similar level of forces as in real car, then one ends up with ffb being kind of capped, where smaller and larger forces can't be separated from each other, that is why only relatively light ffb is then giving whole range of force. Difficulty is then to know when force is strongest without sacrificing that range, varies from car to car naturally. Not sure if steering arm force from motec logs could be used some way to adjust ffb in game, with rF1 and realfeel method was to look what kind of steering arm forces there was and adjust realfeel.ini value accordingly, but I don't know if rF2 has similar values to set and if some unit conversions are required? I really can't use higher than 0.4 as then it starts to be only something like on/off.
In engineering we were taught that no matter how idiot proof you make your design, someone just makes better idiot. So it is pointless to make idiot proof systems, but I would not see it being pointless to have default values to be carefully chosen to provide good experience with that specific detected gear. That would perhaps decrease amount of people not using optimal settings from something like 70% to 40% or something like that, all those that don't bother adjusting settings would then gain something and I imagine that being quite large crowd. I'm against pampering/limiting options quite strongly, but I think providing best possible base settings would have some benefit, also it would not limit those that know how to do things. Of course that is against what modern day software development does, which is limiting amount of options and buttons, putting everything to automatic without manual override and then failing miserably in helping beginners while still taking away possibilities from advanced ones. I don't really hate anything, but that comes quite close to what I could easily hate.
Having read through the last 3 pages here I must say this is a classic comment, what is so wrong with learning lol. Learning the best way to setup your computer to perform at its optimum level is surely a good thing all should learn. I hate being spoon fed or needing to spoon feed others not willing to learn some basic things that will only improve their own user experiance. With comments like that though I would pretty much abandon any support for such a user and let them fend for themselves with their eyes and mind firmly closed.
