G25 & g27 owners -check your wheels

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adrianstealth, Aug 13, 2012.

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  1. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Hiya

    I'm a t500 user and my wheel developed horrible crunching, Simalar to the problem that I've read here on the forums of g25 & g27 users are experiencing


    Anyway it's a long story but I discovered that some screws had popped out of my t500. ( after blaming the new build etc & frustrating few days fiddling in config files ! )

    It's only 8 months old and I don't use with very high ffb

    Some kind of problem on the production line as when I opened it most screws needed to be tightend !

    All is fine now ( phew ! )


    The crunching was down to the loose slight dead zone (created by loose fittings ) and I'm wondering I'd anything can be tightend on these g25/27 wheels to solve the crunching problem?
     
  2. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    No, my screws are ok, but Ill check my wife's now that you mention it :rolleyes:
     
  3. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Lol

    There must be some play in those g25/27's which causes the knocking/crunch as the quick slight forces quickly move from side to side

    Maybe it's the design of the wheel or something that developes due to wear? Bet it would be easy to mod it out of them
     
  4. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Your wheel has belts while g25-27 has gears? No wearing problem, just different construction.
     
  5. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Is there a small dead zone in them?
     
  6. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    A huge one actually. It always has been from the start.

    (dunno about g27s, I have g25)
     
  7. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    Mmm... doesn`t really sound like loose screws here (G25) sounds more like the gears themselves are crunching themselves to bits!
     
  8. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    When I bought g25 I was pretty certain this would be the end of all wheels and now...belt driven? Yummie, yummie...
     
  9. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    My G27 is almost new, with very little track time. I feel the excessive knocking that is common for the Logitech controllers with rF2 right now. The difference in the G25 and G27 is the design of the gears. The 25 has basically square gears that by their nature have a little gap between the teeth when they mesh, creating a dead zone, a small one, but it is there. The 27 uses what is called a helical gear which basically means the gears curve from center to outside instead of just going straight. This allows the gears to mesh with the clearances it needs, but also reduces the feeling of gap and dead zone between the gears.

    With the T500 using a belt you don't have those issues, and the belt may act as a vibration damper so things are not felt at the wheel as strongly as they would be with gears. By this I am mostly talking about the sharp knocking the Logitech wheels feel. What I and I expect the rest feel is a rather strong, rapid back and forth which causes the gears to clash and makes a lot of noise. It also produces a fairly strong amount of force to the wheel which can be felt over any other FFB effect.
     
  10. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    The G27 has opposing tensioned gears that are there to keep a 0 slip tolerance. The G25 doesn't have that and the T500 is belt driven. So..
     
  11. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Nope, it's the opposite. G27 have helical gear and that means, it's impossible to have "opposing tensioned gears" (and yes, I know G27 internals very well). G25 has straight cut gears and also "opposing tensioned gears". But... from my personal experience, not every G25 has them tensioned properly. I don't know if that is or was a factory fault or they did that on purpose.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2012
  12. D1Racer

    D1Racer Registered

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    G27 rattling is caused by the helical gears moving the motor shaft's up/down. The standard spring is just not strong enough to stop shaft play under some peak FFB inputs.
     
  13. JvM

    JvM Registered

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    Yeah not much we can do about the G27 rattle. But the ffb could be a bit more kind to them in those known situations. We know it can be done.
     
  14. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    So if this is primarily from shaft end play, then a shim inside the motor to limit end play would tone this down quite a bit. Hmmm, will have to look into this a bit and see if it is going to be worth the dis-assembly.
     
  15. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I've not looked inside a g25/27, it sounds as though it's within the design ( possibly getting worse with age ? )

    Cogs having a minor amount of play causing a "snap back " (the crunching or rattling sound users mention )

    It's not really software related although there does seem a software work around,

    If my t500 can emulate this with a loose screws then I realise the play dosnt have to be that much to cause a smacking/crunching/rattle when the wheel receives the shake / vibration instructions
     
  16. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Another thought just occurred to me..... I used to build my own racing engines for 1/10th scale electric radio controlled cars and they use the same type of motor. Wonder if I can soup up my G27? Hmmmm
     
  17. D1Racer

    D1Racer Registered

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    A dirty DIY fix I found while searching.

    https://plus.google.com/photos/113839068734380231178/albums/5691461502139407841#photos/113839068734380231178/albums/5691461502139407841

    A possible side effect of no shaft play is premature wearing of the bearings.
     
  18. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    That's what I told my girlfriend when she put a ban on me...
     
  19. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    I don't agree. Rattling is because free play between teeth of helical gears and is clearly noticable not only in rf2 but also in other sims. That for me is the main downside of switching from G25 to G27.
     
  20. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Well...the post you are refering to, proposed a dirty DIY fix...
     
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