Will rF2 have brake fade/failure or tired engines in longer races?

I am not confused at all.
I did say that the correct procedure when racing is brake hard, then downshift to high revs (not just once, if your going from 6th to 2nd gear you will downshift 4times to high revs) and gradually use less braking.

It seems however that some simracers just go on brakes slightly, don't modulate their brake force at all and rely on engine braking too much. Thats not correct.

And one advice btw, if you use ABS in a sim you will NEVER learn how to brake.

 

@Paul Loatman: This is getting absurd.
I have 35 years on the roads with bikes and fast cars. I only had manual gearboxes always too. So, except for your track experience which I respect, dont consider yourself as a more experienced driver than others. I have clocked almost, or more than 1 million km in my life, beat that.

What you actually say here is more or less the same as we say. Downshifts and braking combined.
But Im curious. In the first part of your post you mentioned downshifting without brakes to the exit of your home.
I have a similar situation at my home where I approach the exit at 100mph and go down to 2nd.
Would you do this without braking?

(heavy downshifting is worse on the tyres than progressive braking too)

 

well if you keep hammering the gas/throttle pedal things are going to look hot
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/m5P6drXtyCNKCyyTWdLzg6UCrIC4qJPqTznAiYegVY8?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8yulXiDfGO3IwtBmWuLwdqUCrIC4qJPqTznAiYegVY8?feat=directlink
what happens if you do

 

How long did that take?

 

Exactly!
Brakes in a racing car are there for braking. Drivers use it as primary stopping force, and they use engine braking to shorten braking distance even more.
You use both, but brakes are primary (because that's what they are for).

 

Lol now we're all just repeating the same over again and again.

 

As already pointed out you cannot compare touring cars to F1, different kettle of fish. I think most people are saying the correct things just that there seems everyone is talking about something different lol.

HRT in Canada struggled and eventually retired from brake overheating problems. Their car has the least amount of downforce allowing them to be very quick on the straight (obviously) however the disadvantage is that their aero-braking was very poor placing a bigger work load on the brakes for which their brake ducting and cooling settings weren't able to deal with thus causing their retirement. Single seaters rely on brakes more than conventional cars for reasons as discussed throughout the thread.

 

1:30 min practice sessions: me it took only 20-30 laps without pitting once.went into the garages if i caught a fence or parked car

 

Actually I don't see why we can't compare touring cars to F1.
The core we were discussing is still the same, the technique of braking is absolutely the same. Main braking force for racing drivers are Brakes. Engine braking and braking due to aero drag are secondary. No matter how much downforce (or lift!) a car has, brakes are primary. Obviously on every car you might need slightly different brake force (or rather, travel in our sims).
F1 car has so much downforce that drivers in high speeds can simply smash the pedal as hard and fast as possible without lockup because they have more grip which those brakes can't overcome. But they have to be really careful in low speeds. At 80kph an F1 car doesn't have much more grip than F3 car for example, something to think about when people say how "easy" is to drive just because of downforce.
Downforce does not make the car easier to drive per say, its more complex than that.

Lets not mix brake cooling ducts into this, thats another discussion. If they had insufficient cooling, they overheated, this has nothing to do with technique of braking if everything is working as is supposed to be.

 

Seems to me, with modern seq (automatic really) 7(!) speed gearboxes you can do a lot of downshifting whithout braking.
In the end, the deciding force will be the brakes, yes.

 

Sure you can brake fast - compared to normal cars - but you will still be nowhere near the cars full braking potential.
Some estimates from my head, on modern F1 car:
If you go 300kph and just let off the gas, not touch the brakes and downshift, you will get about 2.5g braking. Sounds like lots? It is, compared to a street super car like nissan gtr. But it is not using F1 potential. If you slam the brakes AND downshift, you will get 4-4.5g braking.

And thats what all racing is about, nothing else. Use as much grip as possible .

I don't want to sound elitist please sorry if I do. But I noticed this when driving online rf1. Lots of people don't brake nearly at the limit.

 

^ Yes and I think the curve can be even more complicated with some brakes, generally normal street brakes have such curves that they provide more than 50% power even if very cold, but when they are overheated they lose power even faster than linearly.
Reason is obvious, in normal driving situations you only need gentle braking, for comfort ride so you need brakes to work well even when cold.

Ironically thats why some super street cars with carbon brakes are so bad for normal driving. They brake poorly when cold and then suddenly as they get heated you will slam your head against dashboard if you're not wearing seatbelt

 

Main reason I didnt buy the Enzo LOL

 

Same here Lol.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ezp93fWNkw&feature=related

jim clark 1963 at oulton park onboard

 

Can´t agree, experience tells me another story...

Let´s take a corner were you e.g come with about 160. You start braking, high pressure. In the time you downshift the first time you are allready a bit slower (even if you have short shifting times) and are at a point were you can lock up the tires without the engine brake at all. So, at this corner you wouldn´t gain anything at all thanks to the engine brake. You could be all the time on the clutch or shift down using the engine brake, your braking zone wouldn´t change at all.
Now take a corner where you arrive with >200, with a small Group N car (so no big brakes). For the first few meters the engine helps braking (and depending on your engine, not even at all), because your brakes are not big enough to lock the tires, but after a very short time your brake is enough again allready. So you gain a little bit shorter brake zone (maybe, but see the next point), but not a lot! Nothing like "you slow down twice as fast"...no way.

Another thing: if your negative acceleration is higher than the rate at which your revs are falling when you let the car roll, you don´t have an engine brake anymore. Racecar braking is not as static as going downhill with your streetcar, slowing by the engine...

The limiting factor is the grip of the tires, in most racecars the brakes are not limiting, only a tiny bit around top speed. But this is not compensated by engine brake, engine brake is a lot to weak for that.

And, braking in front of your house nowhere near the limit is a totally different story, everyone uses engine braking on the street.

 

Yes, after all I once read a nice article about racing which stated that racing is basically the opposite of street driving. Unless you're hurrying for work or hospital or whatever, but then it becomes racing .

 

Also, in any decent sim, if you just use your gearbox to slow down in a rear wheel drive you will spin. If you don't use both, as has already been said many many times you will have problems. F1 cars and touring cars cannot be compared however, the brakes on an F1 car are ferocious and stop the car happily all by themselves. They stop or slow down the car so quickly that you come down the gear box quickly, leading to the ILLUSION that the gearbox is slowing the car.

Touring cars definately use engine braking. This is Tom chilton talking

“I don’t think Knockhill will be so bad. It’s a tight, twisty circuit and although the LPG technology means we’ve had extra weight to carry the progress we made with the chassis at Silverstone makes me feel quite confident. On top of that, giving us a smaller restrictor on the engine has actually improved the car’s engine braking."

 

Dammit. I clearly remember reading somewhere that many if not most racing drivers think they can come to a dead halt faster by just braking without changing down at all, but the one time I actually need that link I can't find it...