Hi Paul, I downloaded the Beta because of the Formula Masters Mod so I know where you are coming from. The handling isn't right and I'm sure they'll have an update for it just like they did for the FR3.5 and others. You must set your DRS button manually, go to the controller setup and map a button for Rear Flap. Even if you have the T500 F1 wheel you must map it manually, at least I had to. I'm also surprised there isn't more discussion about this but interests seem to more focused on say screen shots. Not that this is a bad thing just unexpected for a beta. No comment from Tim or anyone from ISI on this issue either which is disappointing. The good news is the FR3.5. is brilliant. I'm using this car to get my open wheel fix and I love it. My advice would be to use this car for now and wait for an update to the Fmasters. Cheers!
I think it still suffers from many of the issues that fast cars suffer from in all simulators 1) if the the rear wheels spin up there is a lack of feel and FFB. 2) say you are doing a sustained corner and you are already near the grip limit of the tire then you happen to go over it the car will suddenly step out and have a tendency to spin around without it biting back in. Granted in some cases if you are soft the car will gradually step out and you can ease off or adjust the car but in real life tires are far more willing to grip back in and will generally be grippy even when the driver is totally abusing the car. 3) tank slapper recovery is still very pore , granted in real life there is going to be a limmit to what you can pull back but its far higher than what it is in sim games and rf2. 4) In real life even with F1 cars there is in most cases a huge amount of give and communication to the driver before tires will give out at low or high speed as a result most of the time if you were to mess up in a real F1 car you would be penalized with a pore lap time not penalized by flying of the track or having the back end fly around. 5) Tire grip on slopes and inverse camber again due to the lack of feel in a simulator and general aspects of simulated tires exstream situations like downhill braking transitioning from high aro to a pure tire grip situation the back end is overly keen to fly out and again there is a lack of communication of this and once slipped it is far harder to get the tires to grip back in than they would in real life. I think the biggest issue facing driving simulators is that they reward drivers that drive in a repetitive learned way rather than drivers that drive in a reactive way. For example with both RF1 and RF2 , F1 and the faster cars you accentually have to learn the limits of the car and then set that as a binary wall that you cannot pass. In real world driving you obviously have to learn the limits but you are always testing that limit and leaning on the wall most the time you can even go over the limit and then pull it back. The best F1 drivers in the real world are ones that can balance just on and just over the wall , non of the simulators with consumer FFB devices really allow a top end driver to do this from raw feel alone with F1 cars. What consumer simulators are really good at however is getting a driver to learn a track and be consistent on it , they teach drivers when to make a move and to hold on and not rush into things. In many ways the lack of feel and the holes in the simulation teach drivers to be far smoother as you cannot get away with things you would do in real life so if you were to move from a simulator to real life many people would probably be surprised how much communication and how easy a car is to drive / how much you can abuse it before it chews you out. Mind you in the real world if you do crash that's potentaily a large bill and hospital time and that may hold many people back. I hope ISI improve the physics more and I would love to have a go at RF2 with a High end FFB wheel or even try RFpro at some point. I don't half blab on !
1st... Try lowering steering,brake and accelerator sensitivity 2nd... Lower brake pressure, mines on 90% 3rd ... Lower tyre pressure and toe (front and rear) There the changes ive made n im in the 37's on malaysia n the 24's on mills outer, and trust me im no alien just a mear mortal...
obviously you can change car set-up to make it easer to drive and the cars will behave drastically different depending on set-up. But I think allot of issues more reactive / drive by feel drivers have with the F-ISI and F1 cars in any simulator can be attributed to the lack of feel / consumer grade FFB devices and the limitations in the way tires are simulated/behave.
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/5755-Formula-ISI-s Yes, I have to agree in general. I think jameswesty made some really good points. I'll admit that once the track starts rubbering-in it does get better.
Wait till the track gets rubbered in before go anywhere near pushing the car. You can increase the rear wing to make the car stick to the track in fast corners. Also, lower the car a bit. And most important: bring the Toe towards the 0. I think its positive in front and negative at the rear, just change them so that they are closer to the 0. That makes the twitchyness (spelling) go away and make the car really drivable, even at the limit in mid to fast corners.. Also, when braking and downshifting results in oversteer, increase the Coast of the diff. It makes the car brake a little less when downshifting but it drastically improves stability Edit: I know the first impression of this car is not really a good one. I find the ISI cars (even in rF1) just to extreme in some way. But with these setup changes the car really changes into what I'd call, a realistic F1 car. I'm using a G25 and I like it because of the speed you can react on your FFB. When I push the car out of corners to much, I can still catch it with opposite lock thanks to the setup changes and the FFB. Also a tip: I found out that for example if you take the last turn on Sepang, and you want to get on the throttle, you need to have your steering at the right angle. When the angle of the steering is too sharp and the fronts are sliding, don't get onto the power or the car will overstep the grip limit without a warning via your steering. Only when the front is stable you can get a proper warning of the rear stepping out, when accelerating out the hairpin. Edit 2: Even though the FFB is somewhat rough off the track, I have my FFB strength at around 1.5 or 1.6. It gives me a very good feel of what the wheels are doing on the tarmac.. I'm not too worried rF2 will break my G25..
It's really a motorcycle term, where the rider 'slap the tank', wobbling side-to-side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtjQ4SK4GXk But used in cars as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emHWcVtPDNg
You guys kill me lol talking about how f1 cars are supposed to drive when on the limit of the things lol, I've seen awesome drivers in the first day or 2 of testing being 2 3 4 5 seconds off the pace and their steering was all over the place as the car was trying to kill them, if that was in the sim those guys would be complaining “there's no way this car is this hard in real life“. 2nd we get 75% less feedback and the little feedback we do get gets felt later than in real life. In real life you feel the car getting close to the limit well before you feel it in your hands or visually. The whole ”I'm the intuitive driver type” lol is nonsense, your playing a sim, your no pro, stop classifying yourself as this type of driver or that type of driver like your some pro driver or ex formula 1 engineer lol. Michael Schumacher said the first time he ever had a single lap where he felt at one with the car throught the entire lap was qualifying in monaco 94 that's like 3 full seasons and thousands of laps into his f1 career. But you guys expect to be riding this line of the limit like your some hot shot pro retired Mika Hakkinen. Look at Massa not even being able to get within half or a full second of Alonso in the exact same car up unti the last 2 races, he couldn't drive that car for **** until recently, he couldn't get to grips with the limits, how to get to the limits and ride the limit, how to set up the car to help him get to that limit ”while still having a comparabley quick laptime relative to his teammate”. F1 cars are by far the most complex and sensitive setup wise, where half a millimetre can make a difference between a very good rear end and instability. "Learning the car and driving repetitevely is what you do in real life and you have the natural feel at the same time to balance it as it slightly changes corner to corner lap after lap, its a bit of both, if you only drove on intuition and not memorizing than I'm sorry your not going to be close to the limits of grip and laptime. Maybe compared to guys who aren't that great you'll be good, but to the guys who REALLY know their stuff I'm sorry but someone who just drives on intuition isn't going to make star mazda series let alone indy cars etc etc and if you do you'll be the ones who are 2 3 4 5 seconds off the pace like we see in some series.
Spinelli very well said...... Look at what happened when Richard Hammond tried driving an F1 carhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo id say 95% of us would be the same....
I think you have missed the point completely The point is not the limmit as in fastest lap , its limmit of tire grip , you will see some people drive in F1 GP2 and GP3 very badly being overly aggressive on the cars and getting away with it sure the car will fly out but its far more collectable than it is in anny simulator. Go and do a track day in a radical or palmer jaguar and you will see how much you can throw the car around you can be 100% ragged and sure you will do a slow lap time but the fact is you can get away with it and recover it with the tires far more willing to grip in than in simulators. ( obviously for track days they will set the car up safe but regardless of how safe and stable you set up any car in any simulator right now it offers no where near the grip or feel when driving crazy in real life) In real life cars evan F1 cars are FAR FAR FAR more forgiving than they are in simulators and you have a massive amount of feel and give before the car will throw the back end around evan outside of feel communicated by gravity the car is just more stable and consistant to drive. This is why sim drivers have to drive more by memorizing the track and the car limits rather than feeling them out , though RF2 is a step in the right direction and simulators make more and more ground offering better physics each year. Obvously Rf2 is amazing software and physics programming is mind melting we just are not really there on consumer hard ware to do acuret simulation of the faster cars and even more so when most people are using g25/ g27 which is simply to slow with massive dead zones. as for the Hammond video 1) he is not a very good driver in the first place 2) the tires are cold 3) it was a cold day and slight damp 4) he was locking the brakes and driving way to slow 5) he was all over the place with his steering input 6) EVEN THEN THE CAR WAS VERY STABLE AND LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THINGS YOU WOULD NEVER GET AWAY WITH IN A SIMULATOR "I've seen awesome drivers in the first day or 2 of testing being 2 3 4 5 seconds off the pace and their steering was all over the place" Exactly the car lets them get the lap totaly wrong and go totaly regged they didnot crash but they will have done bad lap time that's the difference between a simulator and reality , the simulator doesn't even let you drive bad. In some ways that makes it a more valid training tool as it forces you to drive smoother but in some ways it makes you a worse driver as you drive more on expectation rather than feel.
View attachment 2861 As for the limit of grip THE TYRES ARE NOT FINISHED, They dont heat up properly n the pressure's not working correctly....lol
Does this mean I can blame "it" instead of "me" for driving so poorly?! It is tough to get a read on when you're going to loose grip in these. I feel like my movements, both steering and throttle/brake are very reserved and rigid in hopes of keeping it on track. Still having fun though. First time I ever considered turning a "helps" on.
unfortunately not really lol In the end the simulation / game aspect of it is still "fair" in that everyone is running the same car and have the same ability to chose set-ups. So although where it is at the moment might be less fun less realistic and less forgiving than real life you still only have yourself to blame for being slower than sumone else. Mind you , you might be slower because you like to feel your way into and out of corners or feel the rear end grip more as you brake to know where the limit is in that case I guess you can blame the game to some extent. If you are slower than another guy you are still worse at the game as it is now , but you might in reality be a better driver than sum-one that is faster than you in the current build , or might be faster than that person when the simulator more accurately describes the physics to you or the car has more mechanical stability or you have a top end ffb wheel. As a general rule I'd take it out on myself rather than the game just use it as motivation to improve. I think the discussion is more about enjoyment of the game / enjoyment of driving and realism of the physics rather than the competitive aspect , although the competitive aspect or weather the game is testing ones driving ability or ones gaming ability follows on from the realism.
I really need for setups tips. Wich change first, what expect from changes i have made and when achieve this, move to next step. Same process again and again and even going back on some feature i may have change who could be improved. Actually, the only thing i do is lower the fuel and tyres type when is avaiable. Thats all i know wich expect: more speed. All besides this is rocket science to me. I´m a ****ing virtual pilot, not a virtual mechanic.
