G25/27 horrendous rattling

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mee, Jan 10, 2012.

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  1. RCRacing

    RCRacing Registered

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  2. Kiro

    Kiro Registered

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  3. _GZ_

    _GZ_ Registered

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    If this quote is true, it is worrying:

    "I will say right now the FFB is extremely direct. There's are no faked effects, so those options to adjust ripple strip settings are gone. We currently have no way to distinguish them from the normal driving surface right now. The only real way to reduce this is through the "Steering torque filter=" it won't completely eliminate the issue, some solutions for off-road may be found in time as well."

    Logitech G27 must be one of the mostly used new steering wheels? To ignore the G27 would be like the music industry started sending out music in a format that made people's stereo whine and scream. "Well it's only raw data, nothing we can do".

    If the curbs are an integrated part of the circuit, they need to remodel the tracks. Or if possible adjust the signal for just the curbs in another way. Without ruining the FFB for the rest of the track with "steering torque filter".

    The curbs do not behave in a natural way! Half of them does not feel at all, and half of them behave like a jack hammer. Nothing like a curb in the real world (or in other sims). They have made a big mistake and should correct it.
     
  4. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    GZ, nothing has been ignored.

    As previously stated, it you don't like the direct feel, add filtering. This same filtering is what every other sim, including rF1, already has by default. :) And yes, I think it does change the FFB, but is still very good. I am quite confused that your post indicates you don't really like the FFB as it is, but think filtering it would 'ruin' it. If we had never released without filtering (again, like other sims do), you would have been using filtering anyway. If rF2 doesn't feel like other sims, that's because it isn't filtered. I can't think of many more ways to say the same thing. :)
     
  5. _GZ_

    _GZ_ Registered

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    You misunderstood. I like the FFB. But the G27 hates the curbs. Only the curbs.

    The curbs are so bad they ruin the game, because of the noise. And since I like the FFB overall, I don not want to filter everything because of the faulty curbs.

    These are the noise levels with different values of "steering torque filter". Tested in Malaysia with the Megane. Filter values above 6 makes the feeling of the car vague. The noise levels are recorded on the curbs.

    filter value 0 --> 107 dB with terrible rattling
    filter value 4 --> 105 dB with severe rattling
    filter value 6 --> 101 dB with much rattling
    filter value 9 --> 100 dB with abnormal rattling

    The curbs are the problem. Redo the curbs please.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2012
  6. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    what curbs at what track? dont forget if the curbs are modelled as in real life then they are not faulty.
     
  7. hoser70

    hoser70 Registered

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    Yep! Something needs to be done about this horrendous vibration on the curbs. That's the only area where there's a problem. Filtering is not a reasonable option unless we can ONLY filter this one and only curb issue out with the G27.
     
  8. HuntTheShunt

    HuntTheShunt Registered

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    I totally agree with _GZ_
    ISI keep being obtuse and saying all we need to do is dumb down the direct feel!
    We fully appreciate how good the FFB is; no more comment needed on that.

    ISI ignore our specific FFB complaint where the tyre is not on the tarmac/road surface. We want control over the none tarmac FFB.

    Does the rFactor2 engine now the difference between tarmac and curb or surface off the road? ( I mean does the engine now if the curb is a separate entity to the tarmac)

    If the answer is yes; then we want the ability to change - not the fidelity of - FFB but the amplitude where the tyre is not on the tarmac!

    If the answer is no; we better shut up and buy a wheel that has internal damping.
     
  9. _GZ_

    _GZ_ Registered

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    Malaysia with Megane. It's a car with springs and suspension and normal racing tyres. All which soften curbs in real life.

    The curbs in rFactor 2 with G27 have no similarity to real life at all. I have driven a few race cars (not much, but tried Formula 3 and Formula Renault for example). If that is what the "raw output" says about the curbs, then the curbs are faulty, or the interpretation of the curbs are faulty.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    The kerbs are a 3D shape, and you are hitting them. Perhaps ask if they drive over those kerbs in real life, or do they avoid them because of how large they are, or how big their teeth are? You are getting unfiltered feedback of your wheels running over it. Either filter it, to reduce it's effect, or don't run over them.

    Yes, kerbs and tarmac feel different... Kerbs are not as smooth as tarmac of a racing surface. Kerbs have more of an effect on the car than the tarmac of a racing surface. If you want to keep FFB of the same strength, no matter what the surface, you're asking for something totally alien to racing cars.
     
  11. evphelps

    evphelps Registered

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    Good grief!
    Are you guys still whining about a bit of noise?
    How many times can Tim possibly explain the same thing to you thickheads?
    It's not the game or your wheel that is at fault!
    It is just the combination of the 2 just illustrating that the g25/27 is no longer the height of sophistication they once where,get over it ffs!
    And before you ask,I have both g25/27 and a CSW and I can assure you the CSW is more suited to modern physics than either!
    You should direct your angst to Logitech and get them to use motors with less slack because that is why they rattle!
    All the same,my mates don't moan about the noise they just enjoy the superior ffb in rf2 when we race on my LAN...
    Rant mode off...
     
  12. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Hey...watch your language man!
     
  13. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    No name calling, please!
     
  14. _GZ_

    _GZ_ Registered

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    107 dB with terrible rattling!

    Do you know how loud that is? That means I cannot race because my son wakes up even when his door is closed. The only option suggested is to make the overall FFB bad with a filter setting.

    Why not just adjust the curbs? I doubt the curbs are correctly measured and built. If so they are not interpreted correctly. At least not by the combination rFactor 2 and G27.

    For example in Malysia there are only two types of curbs. One that does not feel at all, you cannot tell if the tyre are on tarmac or curbs. No clue at all. The other kind of curbs on that track behave like a jack hammer with a curb noise of 107 dB.

    Realistic? No, not in rFactor 2 with one of the most commom steering wheels G27. Was it smart to build curbs like this in the game? So the only disturbance could not be adjusted? No.
     
  15. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    If things went your way, then they should fill broken tarmack at Spa, change concrete surface at Monza banking and so on.

    I have similar or worse problems than you at home, you choose how to deal with them, Ill stick with unfiltered ffb.
     
  16. RCRacing

    RCRacing Registered

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    Ive seen posted a "fix" for this problem with the G27. Just fix the wheel. Its not the sim making the problem. I intend to take the slack out of those gears this winter. Doesnt look too difficult. A fella posted his INI and it helped me tremendously till I fix the wheel.

    Originally Posted by F2Chump

    http://www.mediafire.com/?s50ouk252fd8isi

    Use this G27 owners....
     
  17. _GZ_

    _GZ_ Registered

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    Why am I so disapointed?
    : (

    Because the racing league I have been driving with for the last four years have (unfortunately it now seems) decided to switch to rFactor 2 this season.

    My choices are...
    1) Filter the terrible rattle and destroy the feel of the car. And never win again.
    2) Drive around the curbs with margin and keep the FFB feel. And never win again.
    3) Not race. And never win again.

    All because of the curbs. Just the curbs.
     
  18. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Odp: G25/27 horrendous rattling

    How far from the wheel was your measuring device (sorry, forgot its english name :p )? I think, it wasn't located in your son's room during tesitng :)
     
  19. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    Get a t500, aint looked back since i got mine, then your be winning so much win you will be a winner. ;)
     
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Again Tim you need a sticky detailing everything related to FFB, why it is the way it is, the way it works etc etc repeating yourself over and over again is going to give you a headache (if it has'nt already!) and as I've said before it *WILL* get worse once Gold and more people with G25/G27s come and find out why their wheels rattle!
    At least with a sticky you just have to point them to a the thread detailing everything, if they then cant understand why *some* curbs are designed big to keep drivers off then thats their problem!
     
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