The whole my sim is better than yours debate leaves me cold. My interest and enthusiasm for sim racing is for the genre as a whole and titles from Papyrus, Ubisoft, Microprose, ISI, Blimey, Simbin, iRacing and others have all contributed to both my enjoyment and the ongoing development of the genre and that I hope will continue. My last three road cars were from Alfa Romeo, Audi and BMW and each of these had their specific qualities. There are seldom times when any one car manufacturer has a complete range of class leading cars and I genuinely hope that sim racing can reach that same level of maturity. As sim racing matures the physics aspects between sims should get ever closer, of course there is huge scope for adding finesse but fundamentally they will be much closer than say F1GP and Indycar back in the nineties. Unless I am mistaken I doubt we will have that kind of revolution in driving feel that we had with GPL again. It will be more subtle improvements even if we have a to do list to last a lifetime. I am a huge iRacing fan, however, I would hope that doesn't preclude me from joining the debate in here or in any way diminish my enthusasim for iRacing as I see myself first and foremost as a sim racing fan. The prospect of not having iRacing and rFactor2 sharing space on my hard drive just doesn't figure. In an ideal world I would have an Alfa Romeo, Audi and BMW in my (expanded!) garage, fortunately in the virtual world I have a greater chance! Cheers Tony
So i'm guessing you are NOT asking which sim is the best I agree with you, they should all be on our hardrives or at least at one point in time. Age wise we can't realy compare iracing vs rfactor imo, its just not a fair comparisment but we should brace ourselfes for rf2 vs iR debates, they will be quite lenghty accross the globe! We use both sims in our League and have seen many debates on rF vs iR and to be honest allot can be said for either sim but most points dont even come into eachothers areas. it even surpasses debates on physics etc (due to the sims age-differences) and can be brought down to technicallities like [rf] beeing able to have your own server, recruit with it, change mods, alter files, big fields etc vs [ir] having a great system allready in place, dealing with cutting automatically, ladder system in-place etc etc. Iracing is not doing very well in our league and we have tried many many things to increase attendance and get fuller fields whilst in rf we sometimes have to work with reserve lists and if unlucky some will not be able to race in surtain events. So from a league point allot can still be debated and i suspect it will when rf2 comes out. A league requires abit more then just the sim itself and iracing is not realy catering for that enough imo. But then again, our iracing admins are quite happy they dont have to deal with mismatches, checking on drivers cutting, tweaking mods, making things compatible and coaching drivers in installing things correctly
This thread makes me laugh. When I was a member of iripoff any rfactor thread in the ir forums was basically bashing rF and ISI. I even remember ir members asking rF threads to be completely removed. hahahaha.
If all sim creators did their jobs to perfection we would all end up with the exact same physics, Force-feedback, sounds, graphics and a tire model since they are all aiming at real life as the base. Just like car manufacturers in the real world all use the same physics engine of real life yet some cars are great and others are ... less than great. What sim's in the future will compete with after this mass aligning of perfect physics and aerodynamics and car modifications is going to be where you can race. Quality of the tracks and such. That is where this comes in. http://outerra.com/ And hopefully that comes to fruition sooner rather then later.
There are some long and reasonably balanced discussions on RF2. Of course there will be those that defend their favourite to the hilt but we shouldn't be generalised as belonging to only one camp. That really is the point.
I just joined here today & this was the first thread that caught my eye . I have been a member of iracin for almost 2 yrs & own all content . My 1st racing was pole position by atari , my 1st pc racer was indy 500 by papy . I've about everything since on console & pc , No burnout type stuff . Just the other day i bought race 07 & 6 of the add ons from steam , I own rfactor & am eagerly awaiting rfactor 2 . I remember what went on between the pc racers & papyrus when they closed down or whatever . I realize that created a lot of hatred for iracing to this day that i see on a lot of forums . There are quite a few things i don't like about iracing , I feel they are way too secretive & lets just say i don't believe what they say or advertise MOST of the time . The new tire model is a good example . Seems like they have large number of fanboys who come on their forum & bash people who say something negative about anything . As of today personally i don't think there is a best racing game , I hope rfactor2 changes my mind . I'm going to buy whatever i think i might enjoy & i hope everyone gets enjoyment out of whatever they are driving . Race hard Race clean & enjoy .
Car manufactures have to balance a lot of things, (cost, performance, reliability, time etc...) which is why you see great and less than great cars. Software developers have the same limitations. Outerra seems nice but as far as racing simulations go it a bit overkill. Current technologies are able to recreate tracks to a fairly accurate degree.
The developers of these games are lucky that they're able to get paid to do what they love to do. Even though they may be driven by passion for creating sim-racing games, ultimately no business person in their right mind would release a product in direct competition with another product unless they do it objectively and measurably better or cheaper. So what we're left with are different options. Basically iRacing is Apple, rFactor is Windows (or maybe Linux). As of right now iRacing offers the 'most realistic' racing experience available. If you join iRacing, you're not just bound by a code of honor to race well, you're actually bound by rules and regulations which carry 'real-world' (i.e. out-of-sim) consequences. You can't racing in the higher level races with the cars you enjoy (most of the time) unless you get to the point where you can race cleanly. Not to mention at this time they offer the best 'out-of-the-box' driving simulation with their FFB, tire model, suspension/chassis model, and scanned tracks. rFactor offers open-ness--this much is clear with all of the mods that are created for it. If you don't like something about rFactor, you can change it. If you want to re-create your home-town track, you can. If you want to create the most awesome track that you've had in your dreams since a young lad (or lass as the case may be), you can! All-the-while the platform offers solid (cutting edge at its initial release) simulation. As far as quality of "simulation" goes, iRacing currently reigns supreme. When rF2 is released it will probably gain the upper hand for a while. However, down the line, iRacing will release an update that will bring it back to the front. That's what you get for a subscription service--continuous updates. You pay much much more in the long-run, but you're always getting something for it. Another advantage iRacing has as a simulation goes is that they able to offer quality control. I can tell just from driving the Slowstice around Limerock (a track I've had the fantastic opportunity to drive IRL) that iRacing have put in a lot of work to get the numbers going into the sim to be fantastic. When it's released rF2 will probably a superior simulation, but what it can never guarantee to be the best simulator, because they just don't have control over what goes into the simulation. iRacing actually works with the engineers who design the real-world counterparts. Unfortunately, rFactor leaves it up to the modders to put the numbers into the sim for their vehicles. Since I can't imagine many of them actually have access to a Formula 1 car, or a Porsche Cup Car, etc. to measure their values, a lot of them go off of 'feel' and comparison to what they see from video clips. It doesn't matter how good your simulation calculations are, garbage in=garbage out. I look forward to rF2 coming out. I love that I'm able to drive all different types of cars for just the initial cost of the game. I'm hopeful that rF2 will finally be able to get me to retire Richard Burns Rally. I love rF1, I still drive that more often than any other game. I love that I'm creating my own track and can race it, and maybe one day release it for other people to race on. However, when I could afford iRacing, I loved that as well. I loved racing against other people and feeling like I was actually working toward something each time I raced. I loved that having an off or a minor crash left me gutted. But the even the best simulator out there can't even come close to the way I felt when I took my car to the track! Like I said before, we pretty much have an Apple vs. Microsoft argument here. Apple offers some of the best designed products in the world, but at the expense of not being able to change or personalize it. Microsoft, on the other hand, offers a solid product that's highly developable (is that a word?) and customizable. -Chris
rFactor and iRacing is the same as Apples to Oranges. Two completely different worlds. One provides an excellent service for racing while the other provides unlimited capabilities of customization. Both have Mathematical Demigods at the helm. Love 'em both.
Yeah, that was kind of the point. I just find it a shame it is so hard to have the debate anywhere (including independent sites) without wading through all the bashing but so be it.
iRacing is a bit too closed fisted as a sim. Not being able to customize any aspect is what turned me off. The FFB is suppose to be the most advanced yet all you get is a single slider that when placed above 6/100 makes my G27 impossible to control. I am also limited to a H-Fov of 45 on a single monitor which anyone here who knows me will know, as a no no. There isn't even a tilt adjustment or seat control to get the view to your liking. These aren't things that are going to throw off the balance of fairness. That is up to the hardware to do.
There are plenty of other reasons to hate iR but you're right; what they have done to the sim racing community alone is a good enough reason. Just like the papy guys hate EA. The irony is though that iR has now monopolised NASCAR racing on the pc. LOL. Even if I were to put the past and present aside I personally just don't have the time to justify paying that kind of money as I work 200+ hours per month. I love sim racing and I am very glad that there are so many great options out there. Unfortunately just no official NASCAR options.
@CdnRacer - You ARE joking, right? I thought I did a good job at being completely level-headed and objective about the whole thing. If you can prove any of my statements as inaccurate, please correct me. However, a fanboy for either camp, I am not. I play(ed) and enjoy(ed) both.
I can live with more simulation titles at once. What makes me angry is cheating people by iR producers/publishers. Worse is, people get believing those lies. Selling incomplette product for full price is What I'm talking about. Don't know if all of us track iR from beginning. When iR has been published, there were no fuel consumption or even tyre wear. Currently (after 3 years or so), there is no breaks heating/wearing implemented. There were no pitting, refuleing, changing tyres, yellow/blue flags. There is still no loosing parts after damage. Even FF lock on limit is silly implemented: try to turn wheel beyond turn limit - FF will release any forces. This all is no about 'extra' features. This is about standards. How they can sell product for full price if sim is such way canibalized? Worse is, that iRacers will fight and die, defending their sim by saying those are unneeded features for racing. Even serious issues like: too more grip at 0-speed and at high speeds, too less grip at low speeds are not important for iR community. Just pure brain washing. I'm not talking about changing physics in each game update. Yea... I know rF mods may be far away from perfection. But no one trying to say that rf mods recreate real cars in 100%. iRacers do. Excepting this, iR is nice concept. Some one earns money. Some one pays for a service. iR utilizes best possible track recreation method (laser scanning) - even if there is still 1am and shadows are laying in different directions on the same track at the same time. Even if there is no day time transition. but who cares. iRacers don't care about gfx, untill new gfx feature is implemented of course. After that they hype this, showing new level of iR greatness. So... in most aspects, iRacing should be placed lower than GTR1. It has really good FF and quite good network code. And it is all comparing to nowadays sims.
You're exactly right Maxym. The iR members will stand by their sim no matter what because they have to justify to themselves on spending that kind of cash. The power of denial is amazing. To the other dude. Wikipedia's definition of fanboy. "Fanboy is a term used to describe a male who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards a single subject or hobby within a given field. Fanboy-ism is often prevalent in a field of products, brands or universe of characters where very few competitors (or enemies in fiction, such as comics) exist."
That's how it is with that type of thing, weather it be subscription or mmo or even what ever they call this new thing that TDU2 and Dirt3 etc is, where you buy the game on disc/download but then have to pay extra for DLC, it's all about $$ to them. This is why I like rFactor and ISI. As far as I am concerned, ISI are in it for us first, they aren't rushing the game to release, if they were in it for the $$ it would be released by now and full of bugs. If you really think about it and look deep into it, you can see how laid back ISI's public presence is, no bullcrap, no sales pitch, just good old down to earth communications with us. I honestly feel like I'm talking to 'one of the boys' not a company representative.
