Released Caterham Academy

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    any news about fixing the wheel rotation issue, and the FFB, I'm not sure now if using 120% of a SC2 pro at 25Nm or 400% for a ts pc race to feel something is normal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2022
  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    If your SC2 produces 5Nm when the game says the car is generating that much torque through the wheel, you should be good.

    Depending on settings the TS-PC may need a Mult of around 175 to do the same thing. 400 seems extreme and would probably lead to excessive clipping within rF2.
     
  3. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    I think your state is false and this is why, about the SC2 pro :

    - If I use 100% in the true drive panel and 100% in rfactor 2, it means I have 25Nm max for the torque
    - If I use 50% in the true drive panel, and 100% in rFactor 2 it means I have 12.5Nm max for the torque

    With your logic, the Caterham gives only 5Nm and max 9Nm in the corners, so if I use only 50% in true drive panel, I should feel the same as 100%, and it's not at all the case, I feel twice the FFB at 100% compared to 50% in the true drive panel, so there is a bug somewhere.

    The Caterham can give 25Nm with rF2, so I'm pretty sure there is a bug, with all the games, all the cars, NO WAY i can use 100% in a game with a SC2 pro, and NO WAY the Caterham should be like that I think.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  4. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    I have some friends with DD and none of them I know ever use DD at 100% strength, most of them use 25-40% strength, I use a TSPC and on some cars I use them at 65 % and in others at 100% but I'm already fighting enough with the steering wheel to raise it more, at 100% it looks like the steering wheel of an F2.... if Alex continues with the sheath of reality he will have to put a collar with 20-kilo weights to simulate G-forces:D:D:D
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    Wow, you really lost me there.

    And @juanchioooo I know, DD users don't run at 100% usually. You could probably learn to, but it's a sim, not the real thing. Why make it harder?

    @AlexHeuskat I'm guessing you haven't spent much time looking at telemetry traces. And your 'my logic' doesn't make any sense that I can work out.

    The caterham does around 5 or 5.5Nm during normal cornering, at least when I drove it, on the default 6 caster. If you set your 25Nm wheel up at 100%, and 100% in game, and you've told rF2 it's a 25Nm wheel, the game will output 20% of max FFB when the car is producing that 5Nm. What do you get at the wheel? 5 Nm. And when you hit kerbs and get 10Nm you'll get that too. And when you hit an ugly bump and get 20Nm you'll get that too.

    If you turn down the TD strength, the wheel will produce less force. I don't know how you think anyone would suggest otherwise. The game isn't doing anything different, your wheel software is just multiplying it by a lower number. Often DD users will do just that so as to limit the maximum forces they'll be exposed to - running it at full and turning down the game won't stop the peaks coming through, but turning down the wheel will.

    The game is only outputting a % of max force. It's not giving a Nm instruction.

    Why would you be running your 25Nm wheel at 120% with the game at 100%? Do you feel the forces are too weak? I'm saying the car is generating around 5Nm, so if you set it up at full strength properly with rF2 you'll get that 5Nm. Maybe you're deciding that 5Nm is too weak?
     
  6. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    nooooo, I just wanted to say my opinion and what they have told me and comment on it, not that I had not read you
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm sure I didn't mean what you think I meant :p

    Cars like the Caterham could be used on full, as long as the bumps aren't too harsh. Only in rF2 though, and other games that scale weaker cars properly. You probably wouldn't want to run it on full if rF2 thinks you're on a normal wheel and scaling those forces up.

    Sorry for huge off topic everyone. I have trouble letting go sometimes. (often?)
     
  8. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    I dont understand, if I limit the max output level at 12.5Nm I should feel the same with your logic that at 25Nm...cause 5Nm is alwyas under 12.5Nm....but it's not the case.
    at 25Nm or at 12.5Nm max, I have not the same FFB level.
    The only logic for me is the Caterham doesn't give really 5Nm.
    And I dont belive that with 5000 cars with 50 games, only one car needs to use 120% of the SC2 pro.....the exception feels like an issue, from my logic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  9. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    244
    You should always let the wheel have full reign (so 100% in true drive for a simucube - and unlimited slew rate too) and scale it in the sim. Signal theory (or what I can remember from my 1st class Physics degree) says that this gives the wheel the best chance of replicating the FFB waveform that the sim is asking for - and scaling it *in* the sim lets you get the peak level of forces you are comfortable with.
     
  10. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Do you really believe that the steering wheel of a formula 2 without power steering reaches 25 nanometers? I doubt it very much and that is hard, but it is not even close to 25nm, in any case it is not about strength but rather about speed but since that is difficult to demonstrate, it will be necessary to speak with a trusted pilot to really know , because they do not think badly about simulators or being bad
     
  11. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    342
    If you limit max output in TD to 12.5Nm then all forces will be halved. So if you got 5Nm with Caterham at 25Nm max force in TD, lowering it to 12.5 will get you 2.5Nm with the same conditions.
     
    atomed likes this.
  12. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    why ? why do I have 2.5Nm with a max output at 12.5Nm ? the limit is the max output.
     
  13. atomed

    atomed Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    If.you set the output of a 20nM to 50% in SC settings it is as if.you actually have a 10nM wheel , so easier to reach clipping points.
     
  14. Ricky Law

    Ricky Law Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    32
    "If I use 100% in the true drive panel and 100% in rfactor 2 ".- Quote
    I am a mere user of a G29 and have been reading this thread with some curiosity and need to learn. I wonder if one of you gentlefolks could make some sense of the relationship between these attributes for general users like myself. How do they effect the driving experience and FFB at a general level?
     
  15. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    244
    You are entirely missing the point, if I may be so bold.

    To be able to accurately reproduce FFB detail, the wheel needs the *ability* to make very rapid, transient forces. The instantaneous forces don’t need to reach a steady state of 25Nm - but they do need to be able to react very quickly and to overcome inertia, friction etc. The rate of change - and the ability to sustain it - is what’s at stake here.

    if you want, think of it in terms of the old argument about why you need a road car capable of more than 70mph (in the UK). There is no reason - other than the fact that the power and torque needed to get you to the illegal speed of 150mph also give your car a very exciting, dynamic experience getting to 70….
     
  16. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    maybe it's because of the language, but if you have a g27 whose strength and speed is even lower than DD, do you think it doesn't reproduce what's really important about the FFB?
     
  17. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    692
    so like I have said, the 5Nm from the Caterham should not felt differently with a 20Nm or 10 Nm wheel base.
     
  18. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    244
    Good point - it’s easy to forget we’re not all dealing in our first languages…

    I used to have a G25. I guess my expectations are set high by having extensively driven Caterhams and also having an SC2 Pro that should be capable of (fairly) accurately reproducing that experience.
     
  19. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    being demanding and putting a high value is not bad, but we must never forget, for example in VR, that when we start we complain about the SDE, without realizing that after 3 minutes of driving you no longer realize that we have SDE, a It's one thing not to feel anything, another to have a good standard, and I'm really telling you because I heard it in an interview with an f1 and f2 driver that the steering wheel of an f2 without power steering is heavy, but like in the indycar with some Strength can be done quite well, even if it is exhausting, the caterhans hardly have any weight in front, they cannot have much strength, like the Mini that I also had one for more than 10 years, more compared to F2, so in short, you do not have to be so extreme either As the child speaks and complains, let's be sensible with the details, remember that fear in simulation does not exist
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    The game outputs 50% of max force. Your TD is set to 100%. You get 50% (12.5Nm)

    The game outputs 50% of max force. Your TD is set to 50%. You get 25% (6.25Nm)


    You're trying to take the stated torque and pass it through to the wheel, but it doesn't work that way. Game output is multiplied by the wheel software percentage.

    You can replicate those 5Nm cornering forces on any wheel that can do at least 5Nm, but you need to have the correct settings to do so.

    So, focus on game output and your software strength.

    IF you have the game at 100 and TD at 120, your forces will be 20% higher than calculated in the physics. You keep asking why you need to do that, and I'm asking the same question: why are you doing that?


    *edit: @AlexHeuskat something you might be forgetting, is this setting in your SC2 controller profile:

    upload_2022-8-23_6-59-45.png

    If you put TD on 50%, you're making your wheel a 12.5Nm wheel. But rF2 still thinks it's a 25Nm wheel because of that setting above. Change that to 12.5 too, and you'll get the same output forces as before. (50% x 100% = 100% x 50%)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
    atomed likes this.

Share This Page