Extremely Dangerous Unexpected Behavior in rF2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by prceurope, Jun 2, 2021.

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  1. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Could you explain the intention of this comment?
     
  2. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I agree that there is a problem, but once we know the problem we can choose tho take the risk and use a DD, or stop playing the game, or reduce the force, or buy another wheel, etc.
    The solution isn't force the rest to stop playing this game, because i don't accept that the error.
    Knowing the error, we can avoid any injury taking the wheel with force (not too much) before to clic on the Race button.
    I've a DD too. An OSW - Small Mige 20 Nm.
     
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  3. Elcid43

    Elcid43 Registered

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    I completely agree, only thing is that those who don't know like we do. That is why I feel it is important that S397 take this seriously so someone just trying to have some fun a game doesn't get hurt.
     
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  4. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    Would it much easier to force the restart procedure highlighted above? Disabling a menu option is probably easier than finding the bug and much more popular than disabling the use of DD wheels as that would eliminate 50% of the player base.
     
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  5. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Yes, of course.
     
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  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I love the way you pluck figures out of thin air :p

    The game couldn't reliably disable DD wheels anyway - fairly often it already can't find very popular wheels, there's no way it can work out whether every wheel connected to it is 30Nm or 2Nm.


    From a coding point of view I think the game needs an internal FFB mult that gets raised in realtime and sits at 1.0 once it gets there. Then look at situations that could lead to a jarring (like resuming from replay, unpausing, leaving the car, whatever) it gets dropped to 0.0. It shouldn't take too long to identify all those scenarios and simply reset that variable.

    The other thread with the wheel seemingly turning left in the UI may need something else.
     
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  7. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    You keep missing the point.
    So your brakes failed. Its not up to the different company who made the calipers warn you.
     
  8. Elcid43

    Elcid43 Registered

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    I guess so, I don't understand how S397 not fixing a problem with their game isn't their responsibility. A wheelbase isn't the problem here.
     
  9. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Because its not S397's problem.
    Can S397 fix it? sure, but the programmer that fixed hardware interfaces for for free died of starvation. :)

    Liability is not in S397 court. Period. That doesn't mean we won't see a fix released, but lets take a look at what that costs.

    How many wheels does S397 have to buy to make you happy they've corrected these types of things on all the potential units of hazard; can you quote us a budget for that?

    Maybe those hardware plug-ins can come up with some intelligent algorithms themselves. I can think of at least one method.
     
  10. Elcid43

    Elcid43 Registered

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    I can see you have a very different take on things and that is fine. It is S397s problem as their software/game is causing the problem. They even have presets for DD wheels built into their game. If they said they didn't support DD wheels and to use them at your own risk then no issue here, but they do.

    I am not trying to change your mind and to be honest I don't really care if you agree (nor should you) but the fact of the matter is that S397 software/game has an issue that could hurt someone who is unaware of this BUG. If you know about it and choose to continue to use it and get f#cked up, it's on you/me. Now to know about a dangerous issue and not fix it or warn about it is wrong, period.
     
  11. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    My take is based on the fact that it's not the S397 product thats causing the danger. True they offer some interface setups.

    However my question still stands;
    How many wheels does S397 have to buy to make you happy they've corrected these types of things on all the potential units of hazard; can you quote us a budget for that?
     
  12. Elcid43

    Elcid43 Registered

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    But it is their game that causes the problem, it's a known and repeatable issue that causes the wheel to snap suddenly. As far as how many wheels they need to buy to correct the issue, I would say none as WE ARE TELLING THEM THERE IS AN ISSUE and they aren't fixing it or do anything to warn about it.

    This has got nothing to do with everybody gets a trophy and letting people blame others when they do something dumb, people should be accountable for stupidity. This isn't one of those situations though. If you know something is wrong and it can hurt someone then you should step up and make it a priority to fix it, you owe it to the people who support you.

    Anyway, I shake your hand and hope that this gets taken care of.
     
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  13. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I think that this is an endless debate.
    IMO, the important is that S397 could sort this problem and would be good for their users and their game.
     
  14. Vito

    Vito Registered

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    THEY HAVE NOT IDEA HOW TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE !!
    This is the truth... Great simulator... great tires .... great rain reflection .... but they are unable to solve the problem otherwise they would have done it
     
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  15. Maarten Nauta

    Maarten Nauta Registered

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    The answer is 1 if they dont own any DD wheel otherwise 0. Budget: probably €0 since they already have a wheel.

    I suggest you take a look at these other you call "games" (AC, ACC, Automobilista) and try to "restart" a race there.
     
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  16. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    The wheel jerk is a problem for everyone. Not just dd wheel owners. Tough for them it is health hazard on top of hardware hazard.
    Exit to monitor, and restarting the race from there requires few more clicks, but eliminates the issue completely. So it should not be unfixable issue for s397.
    Quickest way to fix would be removing the restart option from the in race menu when you hit esc, and leave only the "exit to monitor" -option there.
    I already restart the race that way, as i hate the unnecessary wheel jerk, since my (plastic) gear driven g27 is old, and i try to preserve it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
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  17. MARVIN

    MARVIN Registered

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    The problem is real and it happens every time a race is restarted ( if you want to find out, just start a race and after the start request a restart but be careful ). The only solution at the moment is to stop the car in a safe area with the steering wheel in the central position and then request a restart, this will avoid the bug. I hope for a definitive solution because as mentioned it is a dangerous bug.
     
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  18. rand777

    rand777 Registered

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    I made the mistake of mapping 'restart race' to a button on my wheel. I have a Bodnar DD wheelbase and was using a formula style wheel at the time. I narrowly avoided a serious injury by pulling my hands away in time.

    The problem is also that the current documentation does not state that this happens or provide any warning whatsoever. So if even if you are an engineer like myself and carefully read the documentation and exercise due diligence there is simply no warning anywhere that this is even possible. It is a huge and glaring safefy oversight. Whether they are unable to fix it, or simply won't for monetary reasons, at the very least it should be clearly documented as a safety concern.
     
  19. BirnenRubber

    BirnenRubber Registered

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    I think this is a fact of life when it comes to DD wheels and is not an exclusive problem to rF2. You want to talk about dangerous, go ahead and try to calibrate a high torque wheel in AMS2. The wheel automatically snaps back after mapping the steering axis. The only solution I've found is to engage an E-stop and calibrate with zero torque.

    Starting a race in Assetto Corsa will exhibit the same behaviour if the wheel is not centered. The game is expecting the wheel to be centered and will snap back on you if you haven't corrected it before race start. Sidekick actually gives you a warning that the wheel is not centered which is very helpful (and my thumbs appreciate it).

    In rF2 the restart issue can be solved by mapping a button to the pause function. First pause the game and then hit the restart button, and the wheel will not snap in any direction.

    I love my SC2 pro but in all honesty it scares me at times with how much force it can put out. The best approach is to always be extremely careful. Engage the Estop when not in use. ALWAYS check your software and verify your wheel is centered at zero before entering a car. This goes for any sim. Lower the torque to the maximum you're comfortable with. When you enter a new car, drill it into your head to set the FFB in game to the correct level, especially if you have your torque maxed out on your wheel's software.

    For me I like to run with almost no damping or hardly any friction to have a very wide range of forces. I tend to get caught out because the range is so large that at times it requires almost no input to steer the car. If I get too lax, the AI will teach me a lesson when they nudge me. To say nothing of the behaviour of others in public lobbies...

    Once you start getting past 3 or 4nm, these aren't toys anymore and have to be treated with respect all the time. We're talking about PC software with many hardware devices connected and speaking to each other. Glitches can happen anywhere. You have to assume the level of risk you're comfortable with and do what you can to avoid any incidents.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  20. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    I used to use my dd-wheels fast and loose but, they actually behave more realistically with generous amounts of friction and Damping applied, especially SC2. These wheels have plenty of range to still provide all the details anyone could want. It's just a matter of getting used to the difference.
     

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