Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience

I think what makes iRacing look really good in replays are the camera angles and movement. From that replay though it's obvious that there are issues even in the prime esports product that demands a few pennys more from it's users, so maybe it's not all as easy as it looks. I could spot warping cars and issues with the skin transfere just skimming through the video.

All in all I think that the replay system and quality in rF2 isn't too shaby and it's clearly not the worst on the market. The Broadcast for the Le Mans virtual and the Formula Pro race was pretty nice to watch, even if watching esports isn't my cup of tea. What breakes the immersion in replays more than anything else from my perspective is the abysmal sound engine and the quality. Just take one of the historic F1 cars like the March and compare it to real thing. Who ever had the idea the ship those amazing cars with those reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-samples deserves a clap on his/her fingers.

 

Ahh well, you are one of those, bashing everyone with different opinion he?
I AM an iracer it's my Go-to for online racing. And I only mentioned the way cars move in there, which on another dimension compared to everyone else, especially rF2. So don't be that guy smashing on things you never experience because you closed your eyes to see it.
I'm using ALL Sims out there and this discussion is not about the "go f*** off to the other Sim because they are doing better". It's about rF2 and it's flaws and of course we start to compare because that's the whole point that rF2 is loosing track to its competitors, and yes, all of them are one.

 

If users think development in general is heading the right direction, I think they wouldn't complain about it not being transparent.
As you can see by the growth of this thread not just a few are unsatisfied with it. So transparency is maybe the option we have to not get disappointed but in the end, deep within us, we know it would be disappointed otherwise over all the years things would have evolved differently

 

Nor that your opinion was better than mine, your opinion is one more, also from my point of view rfactor looks much better, another thing is other problems, but not those that you reflect ... if I compare with other sim in the end You see that everyone comes back except, those who love the competition sitesma ... I didn't say if you want to go to hell with another sim ... if you want to leave, it's up to you, not that I sent you .. . People ask for what they want but the CEO will do what he sees fit ... for me they have improved a lot and many things have been left aside, but I am not the CEO, so I can do nothing

 

Okay this one is weird to me. How do you know "everyone" is coming back? I actually know a good number of people who tried rF2 (also our community has over 6000 members of which some also tried rF2). None of them is using it anymore today.

 

If rF2 does not convince you, and does not satisfy you enough, I would tell you two things :

On the one hand do not use this simulation, and on the other hand, it is probably useless to waste your time on this software forum that does not satisfy you.

Me rF2 frustrates me a lot, rF2 has a lot of flaws, but these qualities, which correspond to what I'm looking for in a simulation, greatly surpass these flaws.

Of course you do what you want, but why not come back in 6 months :

I think the evolution of rF2 will be very positive by then.

 

Best joke ever. It's not like I'm doing that for 10 years now
Im not explaining myself again, just because you are toxic on people disliking parts of your Sim. It's not like it was mentioned alot in this thread that we are talking about specific things especially user experience which is the worst in industry. It's not about bashing the Sim. You might not have understand this until now. Every Sim has aspects that don't satisfy me. So don't come and tell me what I have to do This is an open discussion, no rant, no bashing. Why should I leave this forum when i can open a discussion alot of people are watching and participating in, maybe resulting in the devs having an eye on this.

 

Also you do not answer my question which just confirms what I was thinking. That it was a factless statement. Also how could you say that with only being just over a year on here? The Sim is out for 10! years now. That's the whole point of this discussion

 

OK, your discussion forced me into a reply...

Let's take the Competition System. S397 currently call this a "beta". The definition of a beta test is that there is a product that is feature-complete that is getting tested by a larger user community, before release to all. In contrast to an alpha, which is usually an internal test and possibly very few users, to ensure things are headed in the right direction. What do you think best describes the current state of the CS? I'm pretty sure almost no-one would call it "beta" other than the fact its available to the full user community.

I've worked for several software companies. My last one wanted to do rapid developments, and had a concept of "minimal viable product" or MVP. The definition of this was, the minimal level of features and functions that you could go to market with, start selling to users. For the CS, I don't believe it is even feature complete enough to call it MVP. Not only did it not support the most common competition types within it, it also currently provides almost no reporting of results for a series/competition. These are two sets of features that in my mind would be required to meet MVP. What we've had, is a minimal version of having qualifying sessions for which the results feed into splits for actual race sessions, that each type gets run on a given schedule with a certain set of cars and tracks. The beta-beta also had a fixed setup one. This has to be the absolute and utter minimum functionality to have online racing; but it doesn't meet the criteria for an MVP. It is, at best, on-going sets of alpha developments.

MSG and S397 need to provide the resources necessary to properly build this out. its been 8 months now since the release of the "beta" (and if you consider, background development of that for quite some time before if they've been telling us the truth about that). I don't see any indication that MSG are ramping up the resources to develop this; its not on their priority list at all as far as I can see. Just like the AI on rF2 isn't. They are letting S397 continue with the graphics work because they need rF2 to handle their esports competitions. That's it. UI and CS for average users, offline or online, isn't much needed other than needing the UI to work. And there's lots of example of the UI not working, with values not being persistent or properly saved/read back, feeding into the simulator itself etc. which is the most basic of basic needs. Not even to mention the latest release of the UI, position the mouse over the positions list at the top or playback controls at the bottom, and fps halves, unresolved for several weeks. It's just not acceptable in any shape or form.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge. Actually in case of the CS I'm totally fine with where we are as a beta and I accept it being unfinished. That's the nature of implementing a feature trying to make it better while relying on feedback on it, which I think they mostly do.
Not mentioning the average 0-2 drivers across all races But that's, again, due to the bad user experience

 

For my rfactor it is the best in sensations and driving, despite all its failures, CEO priorities, and bad decisions, I am still hopeful that things will be fixed, but for now I doubt it, I use VR and about two years ago I said that In VR I can't ride in all the cars live, when there is a good driver I like to get in their cars and learn, you get it with the + and - sign, two years later it is still broken, that with changing the code a 1 for a 0, which is done in less than 30 seconds, it is repaired, because they still do not repair them ... which tells me that they are a disaster, I agree with you in many things, but definitely in rfactor and the address is currently what what's up!!!

 

Yes that's true maybe it changes, BUT I have the fear that MS Games will make it worse. They want to build different games (24h, BTCC, NASCAR etc.) ontop of the rF2 base physics. So at the end S397 might be faced with even more work to do and short deadlines established by MS Games to push out products/base code. And we all know what that means. Sadly It's rather common these days.

I really hope I'm wrong with that

 

For me, (and only me) I enjoy the experience of driving; not the competition against another person (because I'm quite bad at it). Just driving and feeling the car and sensation of "been there" and from time to time race against the Ai.
I'm aware of the limitations of the physics engine and the exploits that can be done to it, but it's my choice not to use those fantasy config to have an advantage.
Also been a track creator I value to be able to run my creations in game, that leaves out many current sim; and between AC and RF2 I deeply enjoy the driving experience in RF2.
As I say that's only me (that I'm actually still using the old UI), because deeply enjoy the driving experience in the game (sim), the point explained are understandable and should be fixed.
At least I hope that rFactor 2 became the sandbox for future games of MSG; I see Formula Pro been a sandbox for the future Indy game; that will bring physics upgrades and adjustment that many people has ask in the past and maybe new features and the core engine evolve over time (physic base simulation?, soft body simulation?, even better tyre model simulation including temp?).
I'll continue to enjoy the engine and keep adding new creations to it; just for me and the few others that enjoy my content.

 

Little off topic from my side...Do you have a link to community mentioned on your post?

 

It´s german, but if you want to take a look at, visit our homepage www.germansimracing.de or our discord https://discord.gg/H5kYJqmfhE

 

I´ve never looked that way at the Formula Pro. That could actually be a truly valid point.

 

So this is actually a statement I like, especially the "making sure we get our tyre model right" part!!
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rfactor-2-physics-info.70229/

 

I need to vent.

I've been an old lurking rF2 fan from years past. Because of covid, work and private life I haven't touched my simrig in a few months. Today I decided to reinstall rF2 and scratch my Le Mans itch while listening to the hyperpole qualifying. I install rF2 and after 30 seconds the quick 3,5GB download finishes and Steam lets me know it's ready to play, only to be quickly letting me know the game is 'validating' and downloading a 30ish GB worth of content. No biggy, I can wait.

After 5 minutes everything is validated, I fire up the graphics settings, set post processing to high, sync to video, AA to 2X and VR to none for now (I do intent to race in VR, but I remember the last time the UI bugged out in VR while assigning controls, plus I decided it would be more comfortable in pancake mode to assign the controls). I fire up the sim and am greeted with a wizard! My oh my, this has improved indeed. I enter my name, and go through the steps to setup my controls. So far so good. Impressed with the new changes, a much needed improvement on the usability front. After the wizard it offers me a selection of what to install. I want to race at Le Mans, so click the premium content option and proceed to wait another 5 minutes for 98 items to finish installing. No biggy, part deux.

After another wait I open controls to assign wipers, lights, limiter and reset VR button and make sure to unassign any gears (not the first time I'd blow the engine because of a miss-press, but fortunately no gears are assigned apart from the up and down ones). I select my trusty old Ligier P217 (the only LMP car with a drivable interior in VR) on Le Mans, edit the car setup, and for some reason am greeted with a 2 minute long black screen. After two minutes I try to move my mouse around to find out what's happening only to see the left bar appear with Force setup and the other setup button which I've forgotten as this point (select setup?). I click on force setup to see what'll happen and the rest of the UI appears, I select the Le Mans setup, hit force setup, double check the double asterisks are behind the correct setup and exit out of the screen. I go to the opponent setup screen and find that for some God awful reason rF2 still has this annoying habit of selecting your car as the only opponents. I add some Orecas and some GTE cars, increase the number to 105, strength to 100%, exit the screen and hit exit game to change to VR mode.

I change graphics settings, set VR to HMD+Mirror, start the sim, enter sim and hit race. I know rF2's loading times are a bit on the long side, but that first Le Mans load took 7 full minutes. Slightly miffed at the long waiting I don't bother to check my setup, I just want to go out on track and get a feel back for the driving after such a long break. I hit the reset VR position button, I am positioned nicely behind my wheel, I press the clutch, select first gear and drive off only to be greeted by a very weird sensation. The more I turn the wheel, the lighter the wheel gets, as if you're driving backwards. I pause, check the settings and notice the yaw compensation is set at 20%. I change that to 0% and go out on track again. Clutch, first gear, exit pits, no feeling whatsoever now. Exit pits, release limited and can confirm: I have no FFB whatsoever now for some reason. Undrivable. Exit to garage, exit session, back to main menu to try and find out what's what.

Because I'm using my old T300RS (as the 'main' rig is not connected atm), I decide to simply load the T300RS preset and try again but oh dear, I have to redo the controls again. No biggy part 3, this isn't my first rodeo. Assign throttle, brake, clutch, gear up, down, wipers, lights, limiter and VR reset. Exit settings, hit race, wait for another minute, hit race: steering wheel isn't centered. When I rotate all the way to the left the wheel centers which means I can't turn left. Exit to garage, controls, hit center wheel on the calibration page, exit, hit race. STILL no FFB. Starting to get frustrated now. Exit session, exit game, open TM control panel, check everything, all is OK. Restart rF2, hit race, wait another minute or 2, hit race, reset seating position, clutch, first gear, throttle and away we go. Out of the pits disable the limiter and thank God, it seems like we have FFB again. I approach the first corner, check my mirrors, hit the brakes and my engine sound disappears. I take the corner and the only sound I hear is either engine, tyre noise or curb noise, but never all three together. Exit to garage... check sound settings... number of sound effects is set to 1 for some reason. Increase that to 16, exit menu, hit race, still only one sound. Exit session. Check the sound settings in the main menu, still set to 16. Hit race, wait another 2 minutes, hit race, STILL only 1 sound at a time.

At this point I give up. I spent half an hour just trying to cruise around Le Mans in the P217. I go to the forum to see if anybody else is mentioning audio issues and I see a thread called "Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience". I read a few replies, and here we are.

I'm very sorry for the hard working developers on this excellent sim, but the user experience out of the box is atrocious at the moment. I'm sure I could spend another hour tweaking stuff, finding out why my menu keeps blinking in and out of existence and why I only hear one sound at a time, but my free time is very limited and valuable and I really, really just want to just cruise somewhere and enjoy my evening without getting frustrated. Uninstalled, for now.

 

@RDG gotta restart rf2 after changing that setting

64 is the best option, too.

I hear ya though. (Ooh! Nice pun!)

 

Maaaan, thanks for that story! What an absolute prime example of the topic of this thread. I really dont understand how people can say its accaptable and easy or a good user experience Without being subjective you perfectly nailed my feelings about rF2 that i had everytime i fired it up in the last couple of years. Well written, Sir!