“ are rfactor2 physics broken” video

I totally agree!

on the theoretical physical question nothing scientifically valid, on the other hand I've driven enough GTs on real tracks to know the feeling of certain cars.
just as I have enough experience to know that between the practice in the car and the raw data of an automotive engineer can be quite different!
but I would be careful not to say that it's good and that it's not good on physics whether it's on iracing/acc or rf2 it is out of my competence

 

But you would have gut feelings, even if one of the main hardship with real drivers is that they often have expectations that a simulation obviously cannot satisfy.

 

While I don't mean to be rude, say what you will, I spent three months driving the hell out of that car and I know what it likes and what it doesn't like, at least for my driving style. And based on that, I can tell you that, be it Hotlapping or otherwise, if you get anywhere near opposite lock, you are gonna lose time (except tighter corners, but I bet I don't need to explain why) . If you don't get opposite lock, it's not drifting. If the steering wheel is pointing nearly dead on straight, all your doing is using the rotation you got from corner entry to do the corner. And this, most of us know, is what you are aiming for

 

So to add a bit fuel to the fire
I made 2 short videos to be discussed. I used the astom martin gt3 on the ett skid pad.
In the first video i went around at constant speed, not overdriving too much the tires. After 2 full timed laps, I did 2 times a full "steering oversteer", turning the wheel a lot. As a result the car (throttle constant, approx 60% required, you can not see it, but you can see left tire temps (outer) at least) slowed down a bit and turned inside. This should be discussed. Even if the car slows down, I did not expect it to turn inside.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kk0xp1w1lxy8cv/rf2Tires_Trial1.mp4?dl=0

In the next video, same set, I tried to go with "steering oversteer" a full lap. Watch temps and wear. However you can drive for one , two laps faster than before
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2c47l35ax0kgm33/rf2Tires_Trial2.mp4?dl=0

 

YES ! this is exactly what i also find wrong. excessive steering gives more grip at the cost of wear BUT the point is, IT shouldn't give more grip because excessive steering cause more heat , more wear hence less performance and less grip ?

I know that peak performance from tires comes at cost of wear and heat but this in RF2 can be pushed wayy too much.

This is the reason why alien understeering setup can be so fast ...because they can just abuse the tires way past the limits.

P.S ->> same for oversteer you can induce it with so much ease manupulate it easily, regardless how illogical a setup is (like lowest rear wing still no big problem ).

This is why low camber, low wing and detached arb works ....because the tires are capable of optimum performance despite illogical setup.

my conclusion is setup may be doing what they are supposed to do but tires are problem , this is what i also posted earlier in this thread. It is the tires that is issues.

 

I've actually been testing modded cars with more attention and they actually seem to not suffer as much from this as I once thought. I know you are not that keen on mods, but when devs are seemingly making this mistakes and modders not, I think one should consider if one should have that preconception. Enduracers have a mod around with GTE's and Endurance type cars. Try them if you didn't already. I quite like them and may drive them more until Studio 397 gives a statement about it.

 

If you're accelerating the car (speeding up, slowing down, turning left or right, or any combination) you have slip angle.

I think you missed the point I was making. There is a wide range of behaviour between "driving on rails" and "rally style", and when people talk about sliding and sliding phases there's no guarantee they're talking about the same thing. E.g. you talk about using the rotation, while someone else might do exactly the same thing and say they're sliding. The language here isn't clear cut.

 

Some of us are coming to the same conclusion in the other thread. Seems like the official GT cars do allow more slip angle (without giving up/ overheating) than most others. You can read the other thread to see even I agree with that, and why

@Slip_Angel, what do you think of the alpine cup?

 

agree, but at the same time, I think we can all agree that drifting = oversteer, and all i'm saying is that, for me at least, oversteer isn't the fastest way to drive the car, while the post I replied to, said that to have the fastest times, you HAVE to drift the car. Im not the one generalizing, it's who said that.

 

Yeah, I saw that and I've been since trying to test mods even dating before studio 397 took over and found some neat stuff. My hope is that what Marcel posted on twitter about heat model will make tyres more on edge and more precision being needed to drive to the limits.

The thing is, some time ago I would already fli flop and went on to the next sim and back and forth, because I have been finding some issues here and there with all of them, but now even if I found again one more problem (or reinforced) with Rfactor2, it still is the best for around now, so I am not even that worried about the physics problems to be honest. I like to observe, discuss and learn about it, but in the end I am quite happy already. If I enter competitive stuff though, I would start to push more and more and probably some of this things would get annoying, as I am picky

 

These videos are from possibly best cars YT channel:



Superb documentation of so many topics.

 

You are right, I’m not into car mods as much. I will see though.

 

I tired gt4 alpine and I didn’t like it much. Too much grip on throttle

 

If I can play devil's advocate a bit (dangerous, I know...)

I think there's some expectation that when you're right at the peak of grip, turning the wheel further will make the car understeer (as in, rotate less, leave the currently-driven-line). That's probably true to some extent, but not necessarily as much as anticipated. I know in my own real life low tech testing of understeer (in the wet, on a roundabout) my speed didn't change appreciably and I wasn't turning any less - but I was certainly understeering more (ie there was a bigger differential between my steering input and the direction the car was going) and there was some interesting feedback coming through the wheel as the tyres shuddered across the surface, but obviously still gripping most of the time.

This expectation also assumes you're really right on the edge of peak grip. If you're slightly below, there's some margin there. It's a bit like setting laps 4 seconds off the pace with neat driving, then sliding all over the place and doing the same laptimes (or faster). It's not unexpected, because the comparison isn't valid (if you're not at the limit, you don't know where the limit is).

The second video shows you going faster with building, but still normal, temperatures - which suggests you weren't at the peak the first time. That peak might be in the wrong place (and indicate an inaccuracy with the tyres) but that's still the base you'd need to test from.

As for the car turning more, the second test shows the temperatures can get quite high before there's a significant drop in grip. So you're turning the wheels much more, slowing the car because of the different angle, and that slowing will put a little more weight on the front wheels as well. Turning more in that scenario isn't the same as taking corners faster than otherwise possible by over-steering. But does it grip too much, turn too much? Probably.

 

You must get paid alot to play devil's advocate /JK
jokes aside, your explanation is good but what rf2 doing is not justifiable, it is taking it too much high.
Temperature are skyrocketing in that 2nd video that is NOT normal temperature BUT still cars is following the line just fine. apart from wear i see no disadvantage.

I can understand that LITTLE bit of overdriving can work IRL but this is in RF2 is too much, no doubt.

 

Chime in just to remember that in-cockpit temperature reading are surface temperature, but core temperature is definitely lower, so, the reading maybe out of useful range, but maybe the situation is less critical in the short term than expected. The second to observe that tires still contact the ground and are not melting or burning, that they still have some authority is expected, and I agree with Lazza with the apparent limit being different from the real limit. I'm 2 to 4 seconds slower than fastest driver, and I think I'm a the limit, so I really know that feeling.

 

Guys , i asked a PRO driver named laurents hörr (https://youtube.com/user/LauZzZn)
If they ever run detached rear arb on gt and lmp cars.

He said ( i quote ) ->>

"No, only for setting up the car. Not when driving, as far as I know! "

If you see his YT channel he drives lmp cars, gte car and probably other race cars as well.

 

Just because you are slower than alien doesn't mean you are not reaching tires limit.
you are just on the limit at wrong time and for short periods.
Have you not ever understeered or oversteered ? ofcourse you have just like everyone else.
Lap time limit and tire limit are completely different things and you are mixing these 2 together.

 

You still haven't acknowledged that detached in rf2 means the base value, which is not necessarily 0.

Also check community findings on alpine Gt4 in its forum thread in third party subforum.

 

I didn't say it was correct, was just discussing.

"what rF2 doing" "in rF2 is too much"... really just painting the whole thing with the one brush, huh?